NOTAM Maps
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NOTAM Maps
I've searched this forum,used google but still can't find a user friendly(easy!) method of finding local notams displayed as a map/chart.
Say I'm flying around North Sufolk and South Norfolk on Sunday and want a graphic display of all NOTAMS for this area?
I'm sure I've seen this on Pprune here before but can't find any info.
Lister
Say I'm flying around North Sufolk and South Norfolk on Sunday and want a graphic display of all NOTAMS for this area?
I'm sure I've seen this on Pprune here before but can't find any info.
Lister
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Notam Check
Notam Check
You do have to pay, £20 for a private pilot, £50 for a school or commercial operator. It's a one time fee, not a subscription.
Dave
You do have to pay, £20 for a private pilot, £50 for a school or commercial operator. It's a one time fee, not a subscription.
Dave
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I've had a look at those suggested. They all do the job but most of the map technology is very basic and out of date. Of the freebies I found Notam Map the most intuitive - you can move the map about with the mouse and right clicking a symbol on the map brings up the Notam with the limits, times etc clearly displayed. All you need really.
Leg-it has a proper zoomable map with features and can be exported to Memory-Map. It is a macro-enabled Excel workbook (not the greatest idea) and costs £24.
All of these use an XML file from NATS. Does anyone know the url of this web service?
Leg-it has a proper zoomable map with features and can be exported to Memory-Map. It is a macro-enabled Excel workbook (not the greatest idea) and costs £24.
All of these use an XML file from NATS. Does anyone know the url of this web service?
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I believe they are all just scrapes of the standard AIS NOTAM site. There are very few organisations that have arranged a proper feed of NOTAMs (Avbrief is obviously one that has).
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Handy as these bits of software are, I've always been told to read the Notams as well. Hopefully the software has improved with time, but I've been told (several times!) about when two examples both failed to plot a local and significant Notam....
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I've looked at these tools over the years and have never bothered to use them, because a straight read of the notams from the NATS site is pretty fast (using the Narrow Route Briefing).
The vast majority of the stuff that comes up is irrelevant rubbish... baloons flying below 400ft, some survey aircraft flying "somewhere" within a polygon marked by a list of coordinates (as if such an aircraft could not be found absolutely anywhere anyway), a military formation flight somewhere (as if such an aircraft could not be found absolutely anywhere anyway), etc. What really matters is stuff like prohibited areas, out of action navaids, closed airports, etc. The rest is garbage.
Plotting notams has always been plagued with problems like what to do with a duff VOR whose circle of relevance is something huge like 200nm. Yet, that VOR being O/S might be relevant to a pilot navigating using radio nav.
I've found that the only notams which take any time to work out are the prohibited areas specified as a coordinate list. The summer airshows tend to be listed like that and for that a graphical facility would be great.
The vast majority of the stuff that comes up is irrelevant rubbish... baloons flying below 400ft, some survey aircraft flying "somewhere" within a polygon marked by a list of coordinates (as if such an aircraft could not be found absolutely anywhere anyway), a military formation flight somewhere (as if such an aircraft could not be found absolutely anywhere anyway), etc. What really matters is stuff like prohibited areas, out of action navaids, closed airports, etc. The rest is garbage.
Plotting notams has always been plagued with problems like what to do with a duff VOR whose circle of relevance is something huge like 200nm. Yet, that VOR being O/S might be relevant to a pilot navigating using radio nav.
I've found that the only notams which take any time to work out are the prohibited areas specified as a coordinate list. The summer airshows tend to be listed like that and for that a graphical facility would be great.
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If someone were to actually setup some kind of NOTAM mapping porperly, would it actually be something people would use?
I've always just read the NOTAMs for my route, or in the area I've been flying, which has sufficed with no problems. But I do a fair amount of website development, and a friend of mine does a lot of software development and we've been looking for ideas for new software...
I've always just read the NOTAMs for my route, or in the area I've been flying, which has sufficed with no problems. But I do a fair amount of website development, and a friend of mine does a lot of software development and we've been looking for ideas for new software...
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I've found that the only notams which take any time to work out are the prohibited areas specified as a coordinate list. The summer airshows tend to be listed like that and for that a graphical facility would be great.
That's exactly what caused my initial post and question.
We require-
Log in with no faffing about,see active map,click on relevant area,all dangers displayed with colour or rings, with a simple,readable notation.
I can get a TAF and Metar for EGSH in seconds,
OK it's text but why can't we get Notams graphically displayed as easily as that?
After all it's probably one of the most important safety requirements in aviation.
Lister
That's exactly what caused my initial post and question.
We require-
Log in with no faffing about,see active map,click on relevant area,all dangers displayed with colour or rings, with a simple,readable notation.
I can get a TAF and Metar for EGSH in seconds,
OK it's text but why can't we get Notams graphically displayed as easily as that?
After all it's probably one of the most important safety requirements in aviation.
Lister
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Might like to look at SPINE (Spine) which is aimed mainly at glider pilots but has a simple filter that you can use to get what you need and allows a plot of the area.
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Google
Google has one in conjuction with metutil
http://metutil.appspot.com/NotamData?type=TASK&name=UK_2DAY_WR_KML - Google Maps
http://metutil.appspot.com/NotamData?type=TASK&name=UK_2DAY_WR_KML - Google Maps
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I use the NATS site first, as it's the gospel (as I understand it). When I get completely lost as to where on earth they mean, I go here: OpenStreetMap aeronautical map. It takes a little time to load but gives one a good idea where to look on one's chart. The link is currently centred where I want it - should suit Lister - it can be re-centered for your own universe of course.
Cheers,
WW
Cheers,
WW
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The holy grail of accurate and reliable graphical plotting will only become possible when the data format permits it. At the moment the ICAO syntax for the NOTAM message only permits the accurate representation of a cylinder based on a geographic centre, radius and a height band. This is becasue the main text (the E line) is free-form and does not follow any particular syntax.
Plotting that becomes a problem when you have a NOTAM where the cylinder is so big that its centre and all of its periphery lie outside the map you are looking at. For example the NOTAM for the RAF air to air refuelling exercises over the North Sea. They take place over a very long straight line off the east cost so the cylinder is ginormous and covers most of the FIR. Similarly if the Land's End VOR/DME is out, its DOC is 200nm/50,000 ft so that's another huge circle to plot.
It's also a problem when you have something like an airshow with the Reds appearing. The NOTAM for the airshow will typically be 5nm round the ARP to 3000 ft, while that for the 20 minutes while the Reds perform sill be the same centre and radius but up to 8,500 ft. In a 2D display on your screen that's two identical circles, one on top of the other. Pick up the wrong one, route through the overhead at 5,000 ft and you'll get a fright followed by a hefty fine and the opprobrium of your peers.
Another example. There was a paramoter event, location to be chosen on the day with activity to 15nm round it. The e-line contained a list of the co-ordinates of the 5 sites. Chances are any graphical display software would pick up the locations and draw a pentagon with them at its vertices where the correct plot would have been 15nm radius arcs round each of the points, joined by tangents.
It ain't as simple and straightforward as you imagine, if it had been it would have been done years ago.
There is a joint Eurocontrol/FAA project developing a new model for NOTAM data exchange which will enable accurate graphical plotting but it's not yet operational. More details here.
Plotting that becomes a problem when you have a NOTAM where the cylinder is so big that its centre and all of its periphery lie outside the map you are looking at. For example the NOTAM for the RAF air to air refuelling exercises over the North Sea. They take place over a very long straight line off the east cost so the cylinder is ginormous and covers most of the FIR. Similarly if the Land's End VOR/DME is out, its DOC is 200nm/50,000 ft so that's another huge circle to plot.
It's also a problem when you have something like an airshow with the Reds appearing. The NOTAM for the airshow will typically be 5nm round the ARP to 3000 ft, while that for the 20 minutes while the Reds perform sill be the same centre and radius but up to 8,500 ft. In a 2D display on your screen that's two identical circles, one on top of the other. Pick up the wrong one, route through the overhead at 5,000 ft and you'll get a fright followed by a hefty fine and the opprobrium of your peers.
Another example. There was a paramoter event, location to be chosen on the day with activity to 15nm round it. The e-line contained a list of the co-ordinates of the 5 sites. Chances are any graphical display software would pick up the locations and draw a pentagon with them at its vertices where the correct plot would have been 15nm radius arcs round each of the points, joined by tangents.
It ain't as simple and straightforward as you imagine, if it had been it would have been done years ago.
There is a joint Eurocontrol/FAA project developing a new model for NOTAM data exchange which will enable accurate graphical plotting but it's not yet operational. More details here.
A little less conversation,
a little more aviation...
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I'd argue that, at the very least, a representation of individual points within the E-line can quickly show gross errors in the source data, when the points described in the free-form E-line don't correspond to the bounds formally described in the Q-line.
This situation has a pertinent implication - if the Q-line bounds have been incorrectly stated, then the AIS Narrow Route Brief stands a good chance of not reporting relevant NOTAMs along a specified route.
You'll not doubt recall a bout of Red Arrows transit NOTAMs from last summer which suffered from this, as well as this one:
J7951/09
(The large circle is Q-line bounding area, the smaller circles are the stated RA(T) areas - a Narrow Route Brief from, for example, Cumbernauld to Oban wouldn't have reported this TR(A) at all).
Regardless of how much the AIXM format - if/when it finally arrives (and I do have experience of large projects which intend to unite the world via XML) - will formalise the visualisation of airspace data, unless more rigour is put into the source data, then we won't be much further forwards.
Personally, my motivation for exploring alternative representations of NOTAM data is purely selfish - I've been either in the box, at the hold, or standing on the ground at too many aerobatic competitions as some poor soul, in happy ignorance, sails blithely through without a care in the world - generally spamcans, but the last big one I remember was working for HMG - which prompted me to start thinking of better ways to get the pertinent details into the hands of the people who really should have done a more thorough AIS brief, but didn't - Google Maps, mobile phone handsets, Twitter, finger-puppets; I'll try anything.
The truth is the NOTAM channel is overloaded - there are gems of vital information in there, often swamped by the nasal-twang of minor officialdom attempting to justify an existence, and Squadron Leader Blunty hoping that generating the biggest NOTAM in the book will reflect well on his next appraisal.
If we really want recreational GA to stop bonging TR(A)s, the Reds, aerobatics, displays in general and popup Class A protecting Winky Brown, then the people who are tasked with this need to stop thinking like ATC geeks, and start thinking like advertising geeks.
Edited: Interestingly, my reference to T-witter above was autodonked to PPrune....
Last edited by eharding; 6th Feb 2010 at 00:25.
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Hi Ed
I totally agree with you regarding the value of checking that the co-ordinates within the E-Line fall within the circle resulting from the Q-Line.
I visited AUS on 9 December 2009 and we discussed these errors. I note the one you quote is dated Nov 2009, which is prior to my visit. Hopefully they've now nailed the problem.
Your work on this is great and I'd urge you to forward any new things like this to
[email protected] and to [email protected]
For the benefit of others AIS are responsible for disseminating the information and Wg Cdr Dawn Lindsay is head of the Airspace Utilisation Section of the CAA's Directorate of Airspace Policy.
AS7 at the end of the NOTAM identifies the Airspace Specialist within AUS who raised the NOTAM.
Mike
AOPA UK Representative on NOTAM issues.
I totally agree with you regarding the value of checking that the co-ordinates within the E-Line fall within the circle resulting from the Q-Line.
I visited AUS on 9 December 2009 and we discussed these errors. I note the one you quote is dated Nov 2009, which is prior to my visit. Hopefully they've now nailed the problem.
Your work on this is great and I'd urge you to forward any new things like this to
[email protected] and to [email protected]
For the benefit of others AIS are responsible for disseminating the information and Wg Cdr Dawn Lindsay is head of the Airspace Utilisation Section of the CAA's Directorate of Airspace Policy.
AS7 at the end of the NOTAM identifies the Airspace Specialist within AUS who raised the NOTAM.
Mike
AOPA UK Representative on NOTAM issues.