Light aircraft and lifejackets
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Yes it does, but indirectly. With a jacket you don't have to thread water. This means you can huddle together as a group and stay as still as possible, so that the thin layer of water around you that you have so carefully warmed up, doesn't wash away that easily.
I use to dinghy sail in February. I have seen helm and crew in the water both with and without wet suites before dry suites became the norm. I have also pulled them out. It is frightening how quickly hypothermia sets in and the effect on most people of being in the water with or without a jacket - and my experience is of people comfortable with being in the water and expecting to be be swimming. There is a whole different world landing on it when you dont expect to do so, adding into the equation the trauma, eggress from the aircraft possibly with some injuries and the move from a warm cosy enviroment with clothes not suited for swimming.
I dont think you will be looking for elastic bands somehow!
It is not always so cold in the Channel.
So what do you take to fly over 150 nm of wall to wall pine trees?
1. An extra engine,
2. A Cirrus,
3. The record of pine landing is not too bad, but a long length of rope, a rifle and a sat 'phone might come in handy.
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So what do you take to fly over 150 nm of wall to wall pine trees?
These days, over land, a cell phone would probably work even better than a PLB... Coverage is generally outstanding if you pick the right operator, even better if you're abroad so you can roam to whichever network works where you are, and the fully decked out ones have a GPS as well... You could just email them your location, complete with a screenshot from Google Maps...
Don't have a source handy, but I seem to recall survival time in moderately cold water was significantly longer with a life jacket than without. Being able to huddle up and stay still makes a big difference.
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Interesting thread this one. Just to clear up a few facts. Hypothermia is often the misdiagnosed reason for peoples demise in cold water. Even in arctic waters it takes roughly an hour for hypothermia to reduce people to unconsciousness. The order of problems with cold water immersion are as follows.
1) Cold shock, time to affect 1 to 3 mins (massive increase in pulmonary ventilation, i.e severe hyperventilation and massive increase in heart rate and blood pressure often leading to drowning or cardiac arrest)
2) Swimming failure (triggering of the diving response when the skin around the eye socket and forehead are in contact with cold water. This triggers the trigeminal nerve leading to bradycardia- reduction in heart rate and apnea-breathing stopped) time to affect, 10 to 20 mins. This is being generous, most deaths occur within 5 mins of attempted swimming in cold water without survival suit
50% of deaths occur in these 2 stages
THEN
3) hypothermia between 30 to 60 mins
Even after all that if you do get picked up, 20% of the deaths occur due to post rescue collapse, which can occur up to 24 hours after rescue.
Oh, and before I forget 55% of open water deaths around the UK occur within 3 metres of safety, 42% within 2 metres.
The only way to improve your chances is to
1 Wear a survival suit (up to 6 hrs of protection, though a poorly fitting one letting in just half a litre of water will see its thermal protection reduced by 30%)
2 Floatation device (with spray guard) to improve the posture in the water and reduce water ingestion
3 GPS equipped 406 Mhz PLB
Anything else is a bonus
Ps If you should find yourself in the water without a survival suit, DO NOT swim. Adopt the HELP position or Heat Escape Lessening Posture, basically the foetal position and try not to move.
In my opinion the survival suit is far more important than a dinghy if forced to choose, ideally I would have both, but that isn't always practical in a light aircraft of course.
Hope this is of use, if anyone has any questions on this subject that I may be able to help with, PM me
1) Cold shock, time to affect 1 to 3 mins (massive increase in pulmonary ventilation, i.e severe hyperventilation and massive increase in heart rate and blood pressure often leading to drowning or cardiac arrest)
2) Swimming failure (triggering of the diving response when the skin around the eye socket and forehead are in contact with cold water. This triggers the trigeminal nerve leading to bradycardia- reduction in heart rate and apnea-breathing stopped) time to affect, 10 to 20 mins. This is being generous, most deaths occur within 5 mins of attempted swimming in cold water without survival suit
50% of deaths occur in these 2 stages
THEN
3) hypothermia between 30 to 60 mins
Even after all that if you do get picked up, 20% of the deaths occur due to post rescue collapse, which can occur up to 24 hours after rescue.
Oh, and before I forget 55% of open water deaths around the UK occur within 3 metres of safety, 42% within 2 metres.
The only way to improve your chances is to
1 Wear a survival suit (up to 6 hrs of protection, though a poorly fitting one letting in just half a litre of water will see its thermal protection reduced by 30%)
2 Floatation device (with spray guard) to improve the posture in the water and reduce water ingestion
3 GPS equipped 406 Mhz PLB
Anything else is a bonus
Ps If you should find yourself in the water without a survival suit, DO NOT swim. Adopt the HELP position or Heat Escape Lessening Posture, basically the foetal position and try not to move.
In my opinion the survival suit is far more important than a dinghy if forced to choose, ideally I would have both, but that isn't always practical in a light aircraft of course.
Hope this is of use, if anyone has any questions on this subject that I may be able to help with, PM me
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In my opinion the survival suit is far more important than a dinghy if forced to choose, ideally I would have both, but that isn't always practical in a light aircraft of course.
Leaving that aside, the USAF amoung others would not agree with you.
Survival suites or dry suites are a great idea - but in reality most find them uncomfortable and most are unwilling to invest in 4 suites.
On the other hand once in a liferaft the raft will work better than a suite. You are out of the water and wind, so compared with a suite the heat loss may be comparable or less, and remaining afloat without inhaling too much water is not a risk.
Finally the average aircraft owner or group is likely to be prepared to invest in a raft or rent one when required but very unlike to invest in four suites.
I accept those who argue that getting in the raft is an issue. It is a great deal easier if the raft can be deployed before the aircraft sinks which is entirely possible. Landing in a big swell may result in loss of life in any event so in conditions where the occupants are likely to survive the landing the evidence would seem to suggest a good chance of the aircraft floating for at least a short while.
Take a look at the surface temperature data for the Channel for each month starting in January. The temperature in May is les than 3 degrees warmer than in January. Mid channel the difference is less still.
8.2
7.7
6.5
9.1
11.1
13.7
15.2
17.4
17.3
14.6
12.1
9.6
11.9
Life expectancy in sea temperatures of 10 degrees or less is one hour or less without protection.
The USAF advice remains:
Your best protection against the effects of cold water is to get into the life raft, stay dry, and insulate your body from the cold surface of the bottom of the raft. If these actions are not possible, wearing an antiexposure suit will extend your life expectancy considerably.
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I think you may be missing my point. Yes, a dinghy is a great survival aid but you have to be able to get in it. 50% of casulaties succumb within 10 to 15 mins from cold shock and swimming failure having never got in a life raft in a cold water scenario. Pointless having a raft floating off over the horizon with no one in it. There are plenty of light aircraft that do not have the room for a raft or may help to tip it over the weight and balance limit.
As for survival suits being uncomfortable, that is true in a military situation where they maybe worn for many hours but most light aircraft flights will be much much shorter than that. You mention cost, but with all these items it is possible to hire them for the duration of the trip.
Like most things in life you need to make a personal choice as to what works for you. If you can guarantee and predict the situation you are likely to find yourself in if the worst happens and you can step into a dinghy without getting wet, then good luck. However, if there is any risk of getting wet then a survival suit will enhance your survival chances greatly. Ideally you then have a chance of getting into a dinghy as well and deploy the PLB and 5 mins later you get hauled out the water in time for tea and medals.
As for survival suits being uncomfortable, that is true in a military situation where they maybe worn for many hours but most light aircraft flights will be much much shorter than that. You mention cost, but with all these items it is possible to hire them for the duration of the trip.
Like most things in life you need to make a personal choice as to what works for you. If you can guarantee and predict the situation you are likely to find yourself in if the worst happens and you can step into a dinghy without getting wet, then good luck. However, if there is any risk of getting wet then a survival suit will enhance your survival chances greatly. Ideally you then have a chance of getting into a dinghy as well and deploy the PLB and 5 mins later you get hauled out the water in time for tea and medals.
Raft vs. survival suit
I fully agree that life is much better in a Winslow or equivalent life raft than floating about in a survival suit.
The problems are:
The big advantage of the suits is that they're already on.
Of course if you're flying in the Carribean, the raft may be the better deal.
For Channel crossings, one tactic is to pick up your companions on the other side after they've used the Chunnel or a ferry. That way the raft can be in the copilot seat and you don't have a number of people in a panic situation.
Good rafts are not cheap, nor are survival suits. Perhaps a diver / surfer drysuit would be less costly, but don't forget that you must then provide the insulating layers.
The problems are:
- Getting the life raft out of your average GA a/c -- keeping in mind that evacuation of the occupants before it sinks comes first as it does little to no good to have the raft out if the a/c sinks with people inside
- Inflating it
- Preventing it from blowing away once inflated
- Getting in it.
The big advantage of the suits is that they're already on.
Of course if you're flying in the Carribean, the raft may be the better deal.
For Channel crossings, one tactic is to pick up your companions on the other side after they've used the Chunnel or a ferry. That way the raft can be in the copilot seat and you don't have a number of people in a panic situation.
Good rafts are not cheap, nor are survival suits. Perhaps a diver / surfer drysuit would be less costly, but don't forget that you must then provide the insulating layers.
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http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...nel-sep-2.html
Have a look on this thread.
Alot of top advice from the RNLI and I presume if you contacted the RNLI again they would be delighted to help out
Have a look on this thread.
Alot of top advice from the RNLI and I presume if you contacted the RNLI again they would be delighted to help out
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I think you may be missing my point. Yes, a dinghy is a great survival aid but you have to be able to get in it.
I accept those who argue that getting in the raft is an issue.
Getting the life raft out of your average GA a/c
Inflating it
Preventing it from blowing away once inflated
50% of casulaties succumb within 10 to 15 mins from cold shock and swimming failure having never got in a life raft in a cold water scenario.
I would agree the only way to deal with every situation is to use jackets, a dry suite and a raft. However, my point is for most cost, comfort and practicality are all factors. From personal experience jackets and a raft work well for me.
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The document people are scrabbling for (I think) is this one.....
Probable Sea Survival Times
Basically you don't die from hypothermia, you die because of cold shock or latterly the inability to protect your airway (ie drowning). Table 5 makes for sobering reading.
I wear a membrane type survival suit every day at work for up to 8 hours. Not terribly comfortable but you get used to it. An immersion suit is a different beast and is designed to provide insulation and water proofness and reduces you dexterity to the point you wouldn't be able to fly.
We wear a lifejacket that has a PLB and day night flare. It also has a spray hood (essential).
All that is essential for prolonged over water flight imho.
Liferafts are only any good if they can be deployed and you have had some practice in using them. Launching one off a boat is very different from deploying one whilst you are in the water trying to stop waves washing into your face. Would you go back into a sinking aircraft to recover the raft and where do you attach the lanyard to? That is why modern helicopters have their liferafts fitted externally and all helicopter liferafts have to be deployable from outside. Oh and the helicopter is designed to float for at least long enough to ensure evacuation.
It is my considered opinion that if you end up in the drink wearing just a lifejacket and summer clothes and there is anything more than 10 - 15kts of wind you are pretty much dead. It is unlikely that even a SAR helo will get to you in time.
But the chances of it happening............?
Probable Sea Survival Times
Basically you don't die from hypothermia, you die because of cold shock or latterly the inability to protect your airway (ie drowning). Table 5 makes for sobering reading.
I wear a membrane type survival suit every day at work for up to 8 hours. Not terribly comfortable but you get used to it. An immersion suit is a different beast and is designed to provide insulation and water proofness and reduces you dexterity to the point you wouldn't be able to fly.
We wear a lifejacket that has a PLB and day night flare. It also has a spray hood (essential).
All that is essential for prolonged over water flight imho.
Liferafts are only any good if they can be deployed and you have had some practice in using them. Launching one off a boat is very different from deploying one whilst you are in the water trying to stop waves washing into your face. Would you go back into a sinking aircraft to recover the raft and where do you attach the lanyard to? That is why modern helicopters have their liferafts fitted externally and all helicopter liferafts have to be deployable from outside. Oh and the helicopter is designed to float for at least long enough to ensure evacuation.
It is my considered opinion that if you end up in the drink wearing just a lifejacket and summer clothes and there is anything more than 10 - 15kts of wind you are pretty much dead. It is unlikely that even a SAR helo will get to you in time.
But the chances of it happening............?
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Droopystop
I am sceptical you fly the average spam can and have seen the current compact rafts. Please assure me my sceptism is misplaced?
I agree that in some light aircraft handling even a compact raft is difficult. This is particularly true of small tadem aircraft.
However, a significant majority of the fleet is either side by side two or four seaters.
In the event of a ditching place the raft on the passengers lap and ask them to brace themselves over the raft arms forward and in front of the raft so the raft is held between their ribs and fore arms. The handle on the long edge of the raft should be forward and the hand placed through the handle. After ditching the raft should be available to egress the cockpit with the passenger.
In the event of pilot alone place the raft on the side seat. I use a D press to release shackle to attach the raft to the belt. Granted on egress the raft must be released from the belt.
In the event of an inversion escaping with the raft is an issue but other wise their should be few problems.
As I indicated earlier most light aricraft float for a short while. In fact I have read of very few cases where this was not so. There is usually time to climb onto the wing or some other part of the structure and deploy the raft.
To reiterate for complete piece of mind a suite, raft and jacket makes sense. I would buy a dinghy dry suite. They are far more comfortable, very flexible and breathable. Make sure you have a few insulating layers on underneath - wolly bears are ideal pulled over the rest of your clothes. I have been in the water in February for long periods and remained warm and comfortable.
However dry suites are not for everyone. I am convinced that unless you are willing to make the investment in a suite the raft is really the next best thing. IF you successfully evacuate with the raft and are able to get into it, it provides you with the very best chances of survival if there is any delay in your being retrieved.
I have watched many aircraft set off over the sea. I see very few pilots and passengers clambering into dry suites. I know of many who have a raft and many that dont.
I would give away all my camels were I to come down in the channel for a raft even if I had jackets.
I am sceptical you fly the average spam can and have seen the current compact rafts. Please assure me my sceptism is misplaced?
I agree that in some light aircraft handling even a compact raft is difficult. This is particularly true of small tadem aircraft.
However, a significant majority of the fleet is either side by side two or four seaters.
In the event of a ditching place the raft on the passengers lap and ask them to brace themselves over the raft arms forward and in front of the raft so the raft is held between their ribs and fore arms. The handle on the long edge of the raft should be forward and the hand placed through the handle. After ditching the raft should be available to egress the cockpit with the passenger.
In the event of pilot alone place the raft on the side seat. I use a D press to release shackle to attach the raft to the belt. Granted on egress the raft must be released from the belt.
In the event of an inversion escaping with the raft is an issue but other wise their should be few problems.
As I indicated earlier most light aricraft float for a short while. In fact I have read of very few cases where this was not so. There is usually time to climb onto the wing or some other part of the structure and deploy the raft.
To reiterate for complete piece of mind a suite, raft and jacket makes sense. I would buy a dinghy dry suite. They are far more comfortable, very flexible and breathable. Make sure you have a few insulating layers on underneath - wolly bears are ideal pulled over the rest of your clothes. I have been in the water in February for long periods and remained warm and comfortable.
However dry suites are not for everyone. I am convinced that unless you are willing to make the investment in a suite the raft is really the next best thing. IF you successfully evacuate with the raft and are able to get into it, it provides you with the very best chances of survival if there is any delay in your being retrieved.
I have watched many aircraft set off over the sea. I see very few pilots and passengers clambering into dry suites. I know of many who have a raft and many that dont.
I would give away all my camels were I to come down in the channel for a raft even if I had jackets.
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Dry suit
I asked an experienced British ferry pilot (with an Atlantic ditching on his C.V.) whether I should wear a dry suit on a flight to the Shetlands. His answer was revealing in that he said that water temperatures anywhere around the British Isles were such that at any time of year he recommended wearing a dry suit.
His wry comment was simply that, at the very least, wearing only a life jacket would ensure your body is more likely to be recovered in the unlikely event of a ditching, thereby simplifying legal and insurance formalities.
His wry comment was simply that, at the very least, wearing only a life jacket would ensure your body is more likely to be recovered in the unlikely event of a ditching, thereby simplifying legal and insurance formalities.
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Fuji,
You are quite right, I don't fly spam cans any more, although I am familar with them and the little life rafts (although I have never used one - I gather they are not easy to get into). I am merely sceptical that a 2, 3, 4 people in a small aircraft will remain calm and collected in a ditching scenario.
2 up in front raft in back - would you have the time to get it on your pax's lap and ensure they know what is likely to happen and what they are going to have to do? I would also question the sense of someone having a substantial lump on their lap that is going to want to keep going at 50 odd knts when the rest of the aircraft stops suddenly. I guess if one has a plan that is well thought through and everyone is briefed on what to do in the event........ then I suppose you have a better chance of using the life raft. I still think that most people will end up in the water with the raft still sat on the back seat.
I am not saying don't have a raft - they will protect you from exposure but most importantly are easier to spot by SAR assets. But it is almost inevitable that one is going to end up in the water. The fact that 50% of people succumb to cold shock comes from the document I linked to above. If you are in the water for more than about 10mins you ability to clamber unaided and fully clothed into a small raft is very much reduced, even in the summer. That is where the survival suit comes in.
For those who don't carry a raft and rely on the lifejacket, here's the likely scenario:
You mayday picked up by ATS you are talking to.
ATS relays message to ARCC at RAF Kinloss. (3 or 4 mins)
ARCC plots position, assesses the most suitable asset and either calls them directly (Military SAR helicopter) or contacts the appropriate Coastguard MRCC. (at least 5 mins)
SAR Helicopter scrambled (5 - 15mins)
Transit time (up to 1 hour, but more if local SAR helicopter is busy elsewhere)
Search phase (maybe minutes if lucky, could be hours)
Rescue phase (5 to 10mins for 4 people)
Given that you are likely to be unable to prevent yourself from drowning within 30 mins on anything other than a calm day.
But I suppose on short hop across the channel, you are probably more likely to win the lottery jackpot than drown.
You are quite right, I don't fly spam cans any more, although I am familar with them and the little life rafts (although I have never used one - I gather they are not easy to get into). I am merely sceptical that a 2, 3, 4 people in a small aircraft will remain calm and collected in a ditching scenario.
2 up in front raft in back - would you have the time to get it on your pax's lap and ensure they know what is likely to happen and what they are going to have to do? I would also question the sense of someone having a substantial lump on their lap that is going to want to keep going at 50 odd knts when the rest of the aircraft stops suddenly. I guess if one has a plan that is well thought through and everyone is briefed on what to do in the event........ then I suppose you have a better chance of using the life raft. I still think that most people will end up in the water with the raft still sat on the back seat.
I am not saying don't have a raft - they will protect you from exposure but most importantly are easier to spot by SAR assets. But it is almost inevitable that one is going to end up in the water. The fact that 50% of people succumb to cold shock comes from the document I linked to above. If you are in the water for more than about 10mins you ability to clamber unaided and fully clothed into a small raft is very much reduced, even in the summer. That is where the survival suit comes in.
For those who don't carry a raft and rely on the lifejacket, here's the likely scenario:
You mayday picked up by ATS you are talking to.
ATS relays message to ARCC at RAF Kinloss. (3 or 4 mins)
ARCC plots position, assesses the most suitable asset and either calls them directly (Military SAR helicopter) or contacts the appropriate Coastguard MRCC. (at least 5 mins)
SAR Helicopter scrambled (5 - 15mins)
Transit time (up to 1 hour, but more if local SAR helicopter is busy elsewhere)
Search phase (maybe minutes if lucky, could be hours)
Rescue phase (5 to 10mins for 4 people)
Given that you are likely to be unable to prevent yourself from drowning within 30 mins on anything other than a calm day.
But I suppose on short hop across the channel, you are probably more likely to win the lottery jackpot than drown.
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Nothing new to add to what´s been said already but just to reaffirm the following points:
* Manual lifejacket always, as thought on HUET courses.
* A lifejacket by itself is only useful to help with recovery of the bodies (I'm not being sarcastic).
* An immersion suit means the concerned body will hopefully still be warmish by the time it's recovered.
* A liferaft means the warmish body will also likely be conscious (if a bit groggy from the sea sickness pills) and will be so much easier to spot from the air.
* For the odd cross-channel trip, you may accept the small risk involved and just chance it without a suit and a liferaft. On the other hand, if you are planning a series of crossings, I would get both and brief the whole plane load on how to use it.
* Manual lifejacket always, as thought on HUET courses.
* A lifejacket by itself is only useful to help with recovery of the bodies (I'm not being sarcastic).
* An immersion suit means the concerned body will hopefully still be warmish by the time it's recovered.
* A liferaft means the warmish body will also likely be conscious (if a bit groggy from the sea sickness pills) and will be so much easier to spot from the air.
* For the odd cross-channel trip, you may accept the small risk involved and just chance it without a suit and a liferaft. On the other hand, if you are planning a series of crossings, I would get both and brief the whole plane load on how to use it.
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Life raft is a mandatory thing for me if over water.
Drysuits (variously called other things) are impractical in light aircraft and only anoraks are going to wear them. Normal passengers will take a huge amount of persuasion and probably won't fly with you again.
Flying needs to be enjoyable as well as safe. If one makes it into some kind of masonic initiation ceremony then one will just give it up after a while because it will be so much hassle.
I do wear a life jacket (and passengers too) on the long x/channel crossings e.g. straight down to Caen, or anywhere longer. But if flying from the south coast to say Germany, airways i.e. at FL100-150, one spends barely minutes out of glide range of land.
There are life rafts and there are life rafts. Most likely the best ones are the RFD ones but they are too heavy for most people to move. I had one on loan; I think it weighed about 15-20kg and a smaller person would not be able to move it. I have a Survival Products one which weighs about 8kg I think, and costs under £100 to overhaul which I do every 2 years. It permanently lives on the back seat, in easy access, and importantly is never loaned to anybody.
Drysuits (variously called other things) are impractical in light aircraft and only anoraks are going to wear them. Normal passengers will take a huge amount of persuasion and probably won't fly with you again.
Flying needs to be enjoyable as well as safe. If one makes it into some kind of masonic initiation ceremony then one will just give it up after a while because it will be so much hassle.
I do wear a life jacket (and passengers too) on the long x/channel crossings e.g. straight down to Caen, or anywhere longer. But if flying from the south coast to say Germany, airways i.e. at FL100-150, one spends barely minutes out of glide range of land.
There are life rafts and there are life rafts. Most likely the best ones are the RFD ones but they are too heavy for most people to move. I had one on loan; I think it weighed about 15-20kg and a smaller person would not be able to move it. I have a Survival Products one which weighs about 8kg I think, and costs under £100 to overhaul which I do every 2 years. It permanently lives on the back seat, in easy access, and importantly is never loaned to anybody.
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* A lifejacket by itself is only useful to help with recovery of the bodies (I'm not being sarcastic).
For me, my most likely ditching location would be within 5 minutes flying time from the airport. By the time the helo arrives, probably within 20 minutes of the ditching, I might already be dead, or I might just be a little wet. It depends!
So just a life jacket can be enough, depending on the circumstances. On the other hand, without a life jacket, you're done for. So I'd say, if we bring nothing else, let's at least bring the jacket.
Your clothing will provide some insulation. Water trapped close to the skin will warm up. How long you survive will depend on your clothing, and will vary from person to person.
I almost always wear a lifejacket. I would not wear a survival suit on every flight if I had one.
I almost always wear a lifejacket. I would not wear a survival suit on every flight if I had one.
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I know little about flying but have pulled a few people from the water in the Firth of Clyde.
One of the first Lifeboat calls I took part in was to search for a civilian reported upturned dinghy.(they 'thought' they saw something in the water!!)
Given all the time lags reported above, ie, initial help call, coastgaurd verification, lifeboat call out, the casualty had been in the water for at least 15 minutes from time of first alert until we were on our way. The search took about 30 minutes before one of the crew spotted 'something in the water about 200yds away. 'Something' was an upturned dinghy and 3 sport fishermen in the water.
There was a 65 year old and his 2 sons of around 40 and 30
The old man wasnt too bad and the tubby 40 y.o was cold but OK and recovered quickly. The skinny 30 y.o. was in worst condition and had to be hospitalised.
This all took place in February - god only knows what the water temp was.Waves were only about 1 foot at the time.
No lifejackets but they held onto each other and, most importantly, the boat.
The boat gave a bigger target to see and gave them something for support.
The older guys poor circulation prevented him from losing heat too fast as did the layer of fat on the tubby one. The athletic younger guy suffered most but all recovered.
What was the subject again??
Ah yes, lifejackets.
Well a good layer of fat or poor circulation and something that floats to hang onto worked for these guys that day. So a dinghy type all in one suit and floating cushons with lanyards might be enough if mony, weight or space is a problem and help is at hand. (a waterproof mobile phone might help as well)
Immersion suit, beacon, manual lifejacket and a full life raft if customer compliance, money, space or weight is not a problem.
Better still - keep flying
One of the first Lifeboat calls I took part in was to search for a civilian reported upturned dinghy.(they 'thought' they saw something in the water!!)
Given all the time lags reported above, ie, initial help call, coastgaurd verification, lifeboat call out, the casualty had been in the water for at least 15 minutes from time of first alert until we were on our way. The search took about 30 minutes before one of the crew spotted 'something in the water about 200yds away. 'Something' was an upturned dinghy and 3 sport fishermen in the water.
There was a 65 year old and his 2 sons of around 40 and 30
The old man wasnt too bad and the tubby 40 y.o was cold but OK and recovered quickly. The skinny 30 y.o. was in worst condition and had to be hospitalised.
This all took place in February - god only knows what the water temp was.Waves were only about 1 foot at the time.
No lifejackets but they held onto each other and, most importantly, the boat.
The boat gave a bigger target to see and gave them something for support.
The older guys poor circulation prevented him from losing heat too fast as did the layer of fat on the tubby one. The athletic younger guy suffered most but all recovered.
What was the subject again??
Ah yes, lifejackets.
Well a good layer of fat or poor circulation and something that floats to hang onto worked for these guys that day. So a dinghy type all in one suit and floating cushons with lanyards might be enough if mony, weight or space is a problem and help is at hand. (a waterproof mobile phone might help as well)
Immersion suit, beacon, manual lifejacket and a full life raft if customer compliance, money, space or weight is not a problem.
Better still - keep flying
Join Date: Feb 2001
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This thread has me seriously considering investing in a liferaft but what is the difference between one from an aviation shop like this:
and one from a chandler like this:
except of course, the chandler is almost half the price?
and one from a chandler like this:
except of course, the chandler is almost half the price?
Join Date: Jun 2003
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That RFD one is nice but damn heavy. Consider a scenario where it is on the back seat and the others in the plane are not that strong, and cannot move it.
Stuff in pilot shops is priced more than non-aviation stuff elsewhere, which accounts for a further price difference.
Either raft will save your life if you get into it - somewhere in the civilised world where somebody is actually looking for you. Carrying the cheap one is infinitely better than carrying nothing, or just wearing life jackets.
A handheld ELT/EPIRB will make the location much quicker.
Stuff in pilot shops is priced more than non-aviation stuff elsewhere, which accounts for a further price difference.
Either raft will save your life if you get into it - somewhere in the civilised world where somebody is actually looking for you. Carrying the cheap one is infinitely better than carrying nothing, or just wearing life jackets.
A handheld ELT/EPIRB will make the location much quicker.