PPL Minimum hours
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PPL Minimum hours
Hi all
did try a search but could not find what I was looking for but I am sure this has been asked before. I know you need to do 12 hours within the second year of holding your PPL to keep it, But what happens if you don't get the minimum hours done. Have you got to resit your Skills test again
I hope to get the hours in but was just wondering incase I can't 
did try a search but could not find what I was looking for but I am sure this has been asked before. I know you need to do 12 hours within the second year of holding your PPL to keep it, But what happens if you don't get the minimum hours done. Have you got to resit your Skills test again
I hope to get the hours in but was just wondering incase I can't
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Someone who actually knows the answer will no doubt be along in a moment, if you really don't want to take the trouble to look it up, but IIRC it's a slightly cut down version of the skills test, I think without the nav bit?
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To say it's a skills test is 'biggin it up' a tad. It is a ride with an examiner who has the right to ask you to do whatever they feel is necessary. I'm sure there will be someone along in a moment to give you chapter and verse on what should / shouldn't be included.
For revalidation, you must fly 12 hours, 6 of which must be P1 and 1 "Hour With" an instructor in the last 12 months of the two year period. (JAA PPL)
DD
For revalidation, you must fly 12 hours, 6 of which must be P1 and 1 "Hour With" an instructor in the last 12 months of the two year period. (JAA PPL)
DD
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Very briefly(ish):
You'll need 1 whole hour with an instructor to revalidate by experience if you go the '12 hours in the final year' route.
If you run out of time, you'll need to do a Licence Proficiency Test with an examiner (I believe that's the correct term) to revalidate a PPL. That's essentially a GST: EFATO, stalls, steep turns, PFL, normal, flapless and glide approaches etc, possibly with a bit of nav thrown in.
Whilst the first option needs to be signed off by an examiner before the licence expiry date, the second option will revalidate your licence even if it has expired, ie there's no rush.
There is a further option - keep your PPL, comply with the revalidation requirements for an NPPL and fly with an NPPL Medical Declaration from your GP until your PPL expires. NPPL restrictions will apply (no night, no IMC, no flight abroad etc) so it depends upon the type of flying you do. Before your 'PPL' expires you apply for an NPPL and carry on flying with that.
The advantage is that the Medical Declaration (which cost me £25) lasts 5 years and the revalidation requirements are less onerous (see nppl.co.uk for details). Snag is that some examiners are a bit twitchy with this route as they have been left in a bit of an administrative no-mans land due to poor implementation of the special arrangements.
I considered the NPPL/PPL route but eventually decided to revalidate my PPL by experience because it was so much simpler and quicker - luckily I have sufficient time.
I'm sure there will be a renewals guru along in a minute to give you chapter and verse, but at least that's an outline of the options to be going on with!
You'll need 1 whole hour with an instructor to revalidate by experience if you go the '12 hours in the final year' route.
If you run out of time, you'll need to do a Licence Proficiency Test with an examiner (I believe that's the correct term) to revalidate a PPL. That's essentially a GST: EFATO, stalls, steep turns, PFL, normal, flapless and glide approaches etc, possibly with a bit of nav thrown in.
Whilst the first option needs to be signed off by an examiner before the licence expiry date, the second option will revalidate your licence even if it has expired, ie there's no rush.
There is a further option - keep your PPL, comply with the revalidation requirements for an NPPL and fly with an NPPL Medical Declaration from your GP until your PPL expires. NPPL restrictions will apply (no night, no IMC, no flight abroad etc) so it depends upon the type of flying you do. Before your 'PPL' expires you apply for an NPPL and carry on flying with that.
The advantage is that the Medical Declaration (which cost me £25) lasts 5 years and the revalidation requirements are less onerous (see nppl.co.uk for details). Snag is that some examiners are a bit twitchy with this route as they have been left in a bit of an administrative no-mans land due to poor implementation of the special arrangements.
I considered the NPPL/PPL route but eventually decided to revalidate my PPL by experience because it was so much simpler and quicker - luckily I have sufficient time.
I'm sure there will be a renewals guru along in a minute to give you chapter and verse, but at least that's an outline of the options to be going on with!
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Chapter and verse in LASORS
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/lasors2...ookmarked).pdf
See sections C5 and F1.4 and F1.5. In your case, pay particular attention to F1.4; Revalidation by Proficiency Check (LPC).
The other thing you need to consider is whether you are really safe and proficient to command an aircraft if you don't even meet the requirements of twelve hours in the second year. I know I wouldn't be.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/lasors2...ookmarked).pdf
See sections C5 and F1.4 and F1.5. In your case, pay particular attention to F1.4; Revalidation by Proficiency Check (LPC).
The other thing you need to consider is whether you are really safe and proficient to command an aircraft if you don't even meet the requirements of twelve hours in the second year. I know I wouldn't be.
There is a further option - keep your PPL, comply with the revalidation requirements for an NPPL and fly with an NPPL Medical Declaration from your GP until your PPL expires. NPPL restrictions will apply (no night, no IMC, no flight abroad etc) so it depends upon the type of flying you do. Before your 'PPL' expires you apply for an NPPL and carry on flying with that.
To take advantage of this system, either your SEP Class Rating must be revalidated just as it would under JAR-FCL or, if you wish to revalidate in accordance with SSEA revalidation requirements, you must apply to the CAA to have a SSEA Class Rating included in your non-NPPL.
You can't have it both ways! Whoever gave you that notion?
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Beagle - in a word - NPPLHQ.
I talked to the person at NPPLHQ who specifically deals with this matter and asked if the revalidation requirements in such circumstances become those of the NPPL. Answer was yes, as in effect you would now be flying on an NPPL with NPPL restrictions and requirements.
I was told that, as long as the PPL is valid at the time of 'downgrade' it can: i) be used in lieu of an NPPL for its period of issue with a GP Medical Declaration and ii) all NPPL requirements apply, including revalidation.
It seems reasonable to assume that they know what they are talking about as they are the NPPL specialist body and I presume the same information has been given to other people. If you believe the advice is incorrect, could I suggest that you talk to NPPLHQ directly, as this would have repercussions for PPL holders who chose to downgrade.
So no blind speculation on my part, the information was derived from the official body which administers the NPPL scheme.
I talked to the person at NPPLHQ who specifically deals with this matter and asked if the revalidation requirements in such circumstances become those of the NPPL. Answer was yes, as in effect you would now be flying on an NPPL with NPPL restrictions and requirements.
I was told that, as long as the PPL is valid at the time of 'downgrade' it can: i) be used in lieu of an NPPL for its period of issue with a GP Medical Declaration and ii) all NPPL requirements apply, including revalidation.
It seems reasonable to assume that they know what they are talking about as they are the NPPL specialist body and I presume the same information has been given to other people. If you believe the advice is incorrect, could I suggest that you talk to NPPLHQ directly, as this would have repercussions for PPL holders who chose to downgrade.
So no blind speculation on my part, the information was derived from the official body which administers the NPPL scheme.
Last edited by znww5; 25th Apr 2009 at 10:52.
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I am in the same situation and have been given the same information as that in LASORS.
Havn't flown for some months so have been having refresher lessons. I could cram my hours in but feel a steadier pace with instruction and a renewel via proficiency check is the safer option. My opinion only, feel free to shoot me down otherwise.
Havn't flown for some months so have been having refresher lessons. I could cram my hours in but feel a steadier pace with instruction and a renewel via proficiency check is the safer option. My opinion only, feel free to shoot me down otherwise.
It is only recently that I have discovered that NPLG has been providing advice to non-NPPL holders. That is outside their remit; however, quite understandably they have offered advice to people requesting it.
non-NPPL holders should actually contact the CAA, not NPLG.
However, having worked extensively with the CAA to draft the Guidance Circular for ORS 4 no.711 and the ANO2008 changes, I will contact the CAA on Monday to point out that this confusion has arisen. This is undoubtedly due to the parallel introduction of both ORS 4 no. 711 exemption for non-NPPL holders and the ANO 2008 changes for both NPPL and certain non-NPPL holders in a relatively short timescale.....
Meanwhile, I would recommend any non-NPPL holder who is using the ORS 4 no. 711 exemption (and who does not have a SSEA Class Rating included in his/her licence) to maintain his/her SEP Class Rating exactly as under JAR-FCL.
non-NPPL holders should actually contact the CAA, not NPLG.
However, having worked extensively with the CAA to draft the Guidance Circular for ORS 4 no.711 and the ANO2008 changes, I will contact the CAA on Monday to point out that this confusion has arisen. This is undoubtedly due to the parallel introduction of both ORS 4 no. 711 exemption for non-NPPL holders and the ANO 2008 changes for both NPPL and certain non-NPPL holders in a relatively short timescale.....
Meanwhile, I would recommend any non-NPPL holder who is using the ORS 4 no. 711 exemption (and who does not have a SSEA Class Rating included in his/her licence) to maintain his/her SEP Class Rating exactly as under JAR-FCL.
To say it's a skills test is 'biggin it up' a tad.
There are clearly a number of options with ORS4 No 711 to allow a NPPL medical to be used however that poses certain revalidation problems where, if your licence contains an SEP rating, only the CAA can change it to a SSEA rating not the examiner. It appears that nobody has considered the revalidation process, or if they have, they have forgotten to tell the examiners how to go about it! An examiner is only authorised to sign up what appears in Part XII of the licence.
Whopity, the process is described in para 9.9 of http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/AN%20A...%2000%2000.pdf . You're right that Examiners don't seem to have been made aware of this; however, last week I asked the CFE to draw it to the attention of all Instructors and Examiners in the next edition of TRAININGCOM.
Last edited by BEagle; 26th Apr 2009 at 21:49.
