CAA Prosecution - A lesson to be learnt
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: High Wycombe
Age: 41
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CAA Prosecution - A lesson to be learnt
Dear all
This is my first thread and thought I should tell you all a tale of how I myself became another statistic of CAA prosecutions.
I qualified as a flying instructor back in October 2008 having previously completed an Integrated ATPL at a well known establishment. A lack of recruitment in the airline industry prompted me to continue flying the only way I could afford to, as an instructor.
The following incident took place in my first week as a newly qualified instructor:
I had been scheduled to do a check ride with a PPL holder of some 30 years experience that had fallen out of club currency rules, who shall be known as Mr A for explanations sake. Nothing unusual about that, happens on a weekly basis. The gentleman in question was very confident and seemed like your average club member. He told me that he'd like to go to White Waltham aerodrome that morning for his check ride and return about 30 minutes after. So without knowing any better about the situation I agreed. We checked the aircraft, signed out of the booking sheet, myself as Captain, and proceeded to depart.
This is where the trip became a disaster:
Approaching White Waltham, an airfield Mr A had assured me he was very familiar with, I myself not so, it became apparant that Mr A was unsure of our position. White Waltham, for those of you that dont know, sits over the Western boundary of Heathrow Class A. The aircraft we were flying in had a cruise speed of about 120kts at the time.
As I begun trying to get a position fix using NDB's ( which it later turns out did not work) and VOR's, the inevitable had already happened. After only 3 or 4 minutes of trying to work out where we were, a sight that will forever live with me appeared out the front window, Heathrow Control tower. At this point I immediately took control, yanked the plane into a 90 degree turn away form it and proceeded with haste away from the airport. Mr A however was convinced that what we had just flown towards was infact Farnborough, some 20 odd miles further south of Heathrow. We eventually landed at White Waltham after what had turned out to be about 10 minutes worth of delayed departures and landings at Heathrow and a telephone call awaiting us from Heathrow.
Naturally I was devastated by what had happened and was effectively 'grounded' for a week. On consultation with my CFI we arranged to do 2 trips, at my own expense, around the Heathrow Class A and into White Waltham aerodrome so I could prove, mainly to myself, that I was not a liability and that I could fly professionally and safely.
A couple of months later, 2 days before Christmas infact, I was interviewed under caution by the CAA, and during the interview confessed all and took full responsibility as the Captain of the aircraft. A further two months passed before I was summoned to a crown court and fined £500. This was a minor blessing as the maximum penalty was £2500. Mr A received no further contact from the CAA and continues to fly, at a different flying club, with no repercussions to deal with.
What happened to me that day will haunt me till the day I die and my advice to you all is simple. If you sign an aircraft out as the Captain, then for
sake be a Captain, no matter what your flying, who your flying with or where your flying to. A momentary lapse in concentration can have disastrous consequences.
Safe aviating all.
This is my first thread and thought I should tell you all a tale of how I myself became another statistic of CAA prosecutions.
I qualified as a flying instructor back in October 2008 having previously completed an Integrated ATPL at a well known establishment. A lack of recruitment in the airline industry prompted me to continue flying the only way I could afford to, as an instructor.
The following incident took place in my first week as a newly qualified instructor:
I had been scheduled to do a check ride with a PPL holder of some 30 years experience that had fallen out of club currency rules, who shall be known as Mr A for explanations sake. Nothing unusual about that, happens on a weekly basis. The gentleman in question was very confident and seemed like your average club member. He told me that he'd like to go to White Waltham aerodrome that morning for his check ride and return about 30 minutes after. So without knowing any better about the situation I agreed. We checked the aircraft, signed out of the booking sheet, myself as Captain, and proceeded to depart.
This is where the trip became a disaster:
Approaching White Waltham, an airfield Mr A had assured me he was very familiar with, I myself not so, it became apparant that Mr A was unsure of our position. White Waltham, for those of you that dont know, sits over the Western boundary of Heathrow Class A. The aircraft we were flying in had a cruise speed of about 120kts at the time.
As I begun trying to get a position fix using NDB's ( which it later turns out did not work) and VOR's, the inevitable had already happened. After only 3 or 4 minutes of trying to work out where we were, a sight that will forever live with me appeared out the front window, Heathrow Control tower. At this point I immediately took control, yanked the plane into a 90 degree turn away form it and proceeded with haste away from the airport. Mr A however was convinced that what we had just flown towards was infact Farnborough, some 20 odd miles further south of Heathrow. We eventually landed at White Waltham after what had turned out to be about 10 minutes worth of delayed departures and landings at Heathrow and a telephone call awaiting us from Heathrow.
Naturally I was devastated by what had happened and was effectively 'grounded' for a week. On consultation with my CFI we arranged to do 2 trips, at my own expense, around the Heathrow Class A and into White Waltham aerodrome so I could prove, mainly to myself, that I was not a liability and that I could fly professionally and safely.
A couple of months later, 2 days before Christmas infact, I was interviewed under caution by the CAA, and during the interview confessed all and took full responsibility as the Captain of the aircraft. A further two months passed before I was summoned to a crown court and fined £500. This was a minor blessing as the maximum penalty was £2500. Mr A received no further contact from the CAA and continues to fly, at a different flying club, with no repercussions to deal with.
What happened to me that day will haunt me till the day I die and my advice to you all is simple. If you sign an aircraft out as the Captain, then for
sake be a Captain, no matter what your flying, who your flying with or where your flying to. A momentary lapse in concentration can have disastrous consequences.Safe aviating all.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 647
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MP, no criticism, just questions. Did a 1:500,000 chart, or any other, play any part in you and/or your P2's preparation and in-flight navigation, and if so, what part?
If not, then what, apart from your references to VOR/NDB?
Have you changed your view in any respect on this?
Chris N
If not, then what, apart from your references to VOR/NDB?
Have you changed your view in any respect on this?
Chris N
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: High Wycombe
Age: 41
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We both had 1:500,000 charts but as I said Mr A was very confident in his ability to find W.W which in hind sight probably caused me to switch off a little. Being a junior instructor flying with an experienced pilot I assumed nothing could go wrong. It was a difficult position to be in and one I have learnt much from.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If it was a club check, not a proficiency check or a lesson, and Mr A was otherwise currrent (including the 90-day rule), why was Mr A not PIC? Or did you agree that you would be PIC beforehand?
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If it was a club check, not a proficiency check or a lesson, and Mr A was otherwise currrent (including the 90-day rule), why was Mr A not PIC? Or did you agree that you would be PIC beforehand?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: High Wycombe
Age: 41
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mr A was effectively a student, according to club rules, and as an instructor I was Captain. The thing that frustrates me the most is that Mr A has been at least advised to do any further check flights by the CAA, effectively leaving the door open for him to make the same mistake in the future, or worse. Then what happens? I truely believe the CAA have shown great neglect in dealing with this situation. Not sour grapes, I openly admitted my mistake and took my punishment like any man should.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: High Wycombe
Age: 41
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hours building Instructor. Sometimes their is a price to pay for those hours......
Thanks for that senseless comment.
And no there was no GPS available.
Thanks for that senseless comment.
And no there was no GPS available.
Pompey till I die
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Guildford
Age: 51
Posts: 779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know it probably doesn't help much but...
...I learnt more about flying from my mistakes than I did my flawless flights. I know it was an expensive mistake but at least you have learnt one hell of a lesson from it. I guess that's how you get experience from all of those hours.
Certainly a great posting and acts as a strong reminder of what P1 actually is.
Certainly a great posting and acts as a strong reminder of what P1 actually is.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It might have seemed like a senseless comment to you but was valid.
As Instructors if we are teaching then we are PIC and take on the responsibility for the safe conduct of the flight regardless of the perceived level of the student. As such we carry the can when it goes wrong. You did not adequately prepare before the flight, you were complacent during the flight and as a result you were punished after the flight. Those hours you get to log don't come for free, they have to be worked for. You did not work for them and made a rod for your back.
You have learnt a harsh lesson and you do have my sympathy, being a new Instructor and probably low hour pilot yourself by the sound of it, it was easy to be lulled into a false sense of security and make the mistake.
However you can now move on and learn from the mistake. Do proper pre-flight planning, including weather and NOTAM for yourself and cross check it against the student. Get a moving map GPS and learn to use it properly. I take a 496 with me every time I fly out of the local area with a student. Expand your own experience and visit more places and become familiar with them.
As Instructors if we are teaching then we are PIC and take on the responsibility for the safe conduct of the flight regardless of the perceived level of the student. As such we carry the can when it goes wrong. You did not adequately prepare before the flight, you were complacent during the flight and as a result you were punished after the flight. Those hours you get to log don't come for free, they have to be worked for. You did not work for them and made a rod for your back.
You have learnt a harsh lesson and you do have my sympathy, being a new Instructor and probably low hour pilot yourself by the sound of it, it was easy to be lulled into a false sense of security and make the mistake.
However you can now move on and learn from the mistake. Do proper pre-flight planning, including weather and NOTAM for yourself and cross check it against the student. Get a moving map GPS and learn to use it properly. I take a 496 with me every time I fly out of the local area with a student. Expand your own experience and visit more places and become familiar with them.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: High Wycombe
Age: 41
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
know it probably doesn't help much but...
...I learnt more about flying from my mistakes than I did my flawless flights. I know it was an expensive mistake but at least you have learnt one hell of a lesson from it. I guess that's how you get experience from all of those hours.
Certainly a great posting and acts as a strong reminder of what P1 actually is.
Thanks Pompey. As the other poster has since written I did learn a very valuable lesson and as he can probably imagine my CFI has been very supportive of my situation. But my comment about the other pilot involved being left free to do a the same again should no, in my opinion, have let off without a safety check flight.
...I learnt more about flying from my mistakes than I did my flawless flights. I know it was an expensive mistake but at least you have learnt one hell of a lesson from it. I guess that's how you get experience from all of those hours.
Certainly a great posting and acts as a strong reminder of what P1 actually is.
Thanks Pompey. As the other poster has since written I did learn a very valuable lesson and as he can probably imagine my CFI has been very supportive of my situation. But my comment about the other pilot involved being left free to do a the same again should no, in my opinion, have let off without a safety check flight.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But my comment about the other pilot involved being left free to do a the same again should no, in my opinion, have let off without a safety check flight.
In my view he was having a safety check with you! It was you who failed him by not taking your responsibility as an Instructor and commander of the flight seriously. I would suspect that he has probably learnt something from your mistake anyway!
Every instructor ends up getting led astray by a student.
I know lots of folks hang their hat on the GPS these days, but when you don't have one, maps do the job just fine.
It sounds to me that you were new to the local area and unfamiliar with the airspace boundaries. That's the time when you need the map out and need to know where the airplane is on it.
'nuff said as you likely have absorbed the lessons, but a cautionary tale for the newer folks.
I know lots of folks hang their hat on the GPS these days, but when you don't have one, maps do the job just fine.
It sounds to me that you were new to the local area and unfamiliar with the airspace boundaries. That's the time when you need the map out and need to know where the airplane is on it.
'nuff said as you likely have absorbed the lessons, but a cautionary tale for the newer folks.
Out of interest, what was your intended route?
My advice is "Always work out how you would fly the trip yourself!". Particularly with 'experienced' PPL holders! There is a fine divide between 'experienced' and 'complacent'.....
Even sticking religiously to the WW arrival procedure can often be difficult, thanks to the antics of some of the locals! And be especially careful of altimeter settings in that part of the world! I once asked Benson for the London QNH whilst transiting the Benson MATZ with a student practising UK airspace familiarisation and was haughtily told "Remain on the Benson QFE!". To which I replied "As I fully intend. Request FIS - now, what is the London QNH?"
Sorry that the CAA took you to court, but I guess 10 min of LHR delays is a bit different to sticking a wing into the Stansted zone or similar - so they probably had to make a point?
My advice is "Always work out how you would fly the trip yourself!". Particularly with 'experienced' PPL holders! There is a fine divide between 'experienced' and 'complacent'.....
Even sticking religiously to the WW arrival procedure can often be difficult, thanks to the antics of some of the locals! And be especially careful of altimeter settings in that part of the world! I once asked Benson for the London QNH whilst transiting the Benson MATZ with a student practising UK airspace familiarisation and was haughtily told "Remain on the Benson QFE!". To which I replied "As I fully intend. Request FIS - now, what is the London QNH?"
Sorry that the CAA took you to court, but I guess 10 min of LHR delays is a bit different to sticking a wing into the Stansted zone or similar - so they probably had to make a point?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: High Wycombe
Age: 41
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My last major concern is that in a year or two when the airline indusrty will hopefully be picking up, will this prosecution effectively halt my chances of getting a job with an airline?
I doubt that it will - in fact it might give them something to chat with you about at interview and will give you a golden opportunity to discuss captaincy and cross-cockpit authority grade pitfalls with them.
Assuming, that is, that you're interviewed by someone intelligent and not just by some human factors trick-cyclist.
Assuming, that is, that you're interviewed by someone intelligent and not just by some human factors trick-cyclist.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by MagpiePedro
But my comment about the other pilot involved being left free to do a the same again should no, in my opinion, have let off without a safety check flight.
Keeping a licence current with bare minimum hours.
Remember coming back to a local field and been looked down upon for flying a rag and tube microlight and being told I was crazy by a guy that thinks his regular well beaten 50NM flight is something else...... dried his eyes when he realised we had flown back from the Isle of Wight to North west Ireland.
Keep your chin up, it was a lesson that you have learned from, and to boot you had the balls to post here and let us know, that fact itself leaves me in no doubt that you will continue to be an excellent instructor and career pilot.
Jon