How do you tell someone you won't fly them?
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Yes you are Gertrude 
your just as qualified as myself or any other Captain of an aircraft. You know your limits and comfort zone, we don't. What I would choose to do is completely up to me. As I haven't flown a SEP for the last 4 years I wouldn't take them up either, even if I got my rating back. My reply wouldn't be as polite as yours probably will be, but my 2 words would mean the same as your 10-15.
VFE wouldn't have a problem along with alot of other people in this forum.
Listen to your gut feeling as you already have.
In fact I think this type of thread is what the private flying forum is all about.
It provokes people to think, they might not post but they read and think the problem through and come up with a solution before they have even been confronted with the problem personally.
your just as qualified as myself or any other Captain of an aircraft. You know your limits and comfort zone, we don't. What I would choose to do is completely up to me. As I haven't flown a SEP for the last 4 years I wouldn't take them up either, even if I got my rating back. My reply wouldn't be as polite as yours probably will be, but my 2 words would mean the same as your 10-15. VFE wouldn't have a problem along with alot of other people in this forum.
Listen to your gut feeling as you already have.
In fact I think this type of thread is what the private flying forum is all about.
It provokes people to think, they might not post but they read and think the problem through and come up with a solution before they have even been confronted with the problem personally.
Join Date: Feb 2003
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The only time it has happened to me I was very inexperienced - about 50hrs total, I think - and a friend of mine said he was scared of flying but wanted to try to overcome it as he fancied the idea of Le 2K for lunch. We agreed to try a quick bimble out of Oxford. He didn't freak out in a dangerous way (and I didn't expect him to - I know him well) but he produced a hip flask and started swigging away. By the time we returned to the circuit at Oxford - we'd only got as far as Enstone! - he'd finished the flask. I had to drive him home.
Oddly, his fear was that he'd open the door (PA28, so on his side) and jump/fall out. I tried to explain that with the slipstream he wouldn't even get it open but he couldn't overcome the fear and hasn't been up with me since.
Tim
Oddly, his fear was that he'd open the door (PA28, so on his side) and jump/fall out. I tried to explain that with the slipstream he wouldn't even get it open but he couldn't overcome the fear and hasn't been up with me since.
Tim
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Hi, Gertrude! Very sensible question. As a gliding instructor since l989, I have flown with all sorts. We have a lot of training to endure before we are trusted to be P1, with friends and family or with a student. The most memorable moment on my course was when the Senior Instructor, a large gentleman, after I had demonstrated the basic turn and invited him to "have a go", pulled the stick back completely and shoved in left rudder. "Like this?" he enquired, as we entered the spin. . . . You passed the course if you got his attention.
I have found over the years that prevention is better than cure. Freaking out frightened people should be passed on to professionals, who have been forewarned. The only point that MUST be made to anyone going for their first flight in a light aircraft or glider, before you fly, is that if you say "I have control!" they
LET GO! And if you suspect that your pax is truly frightened, or turning green, ask "Would you like to go back now?" This does not plant the suggestion in their mind that they might need a sick bag (you did remember to bring one, didn't you?)
I have found over the years that prevention is better than cure. Freaking out frightened people should be passed on to professionals, who have been forewarned. The only point that MUST be made to anyone going for their first flight in a light aircraft or glider, before you fly, is that if you say "I have control!" they
LET GO! And if you suspect that your pax is truly frightened, or turning green, ask "Would you like to go back now?" This does not plant the suggestion in their mind that they might need a sick bag (you did remember to bring one, didn't you?)
The Original Whirly
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I've never had anyone completely freak out on me, though it's come close a couple of times. My rules for the borderline cases, or anyone who seems scared and/or overconfident...they can go together...
1) Make it clear it's normal to be nervous in a tiny little helicopter...and possibly abnormal not to be. That means they don't escalate the fear - I'm scared of being scared and of my instructor knowing I'm scared etc etc. And it means they can talk about it.
2) Monitor them carefully as you do the warm-up etc. Do they have' white knuckle syndrome' already.
3) A couple of minutes after taking off, ask: "Are you OK?" If necessary tell them you can go back if they're not.
4) Tell them to relax and enjoy the view for the first few minutes.
5) Hand over control the first time for about 30 seconds, then take it back, and tell them to take a couple of deep breaths and pat themsleves on the back for doing so well.
6) Chat in a relaxed manner to take their mind off the fear.
7) Only give them back control if it seems safe to do so, otherwise come up with some excues...the weather isn't suitable, you've got things you'd like to show them etc. Or just be honest - I've told big guys they're not relaxed enough and if they freeze on the controls I'm too small to get them off and we'll both die! Works for the over-confident ones; the really nervous ones will probably accept the weather excuse...with relief!
After that - play it by ear! But unless you're a professional instructor, why risk getting into this situation in the first place?
1) Make it clear it's normal to be nervous in a tiny little helicopter...and possibly abnormal not to be. That means they don't escalate the fear - I'm scared of being scared and of my instructor knowing I'm scared etc etc. And it means they can talk about it.
2) Monitor them carefully as you do the warm-up etc. Do they have' white knuckle syndrome' already.
3) A couple of minutes after taking off, ask: "Are you OK?" If necessary tell them you can go back if they're not.
4) Tell them to relax and enjoy the view for the first few minutes.
5) Hand over control the first time for about 30 seconds, then take it back, and tell them to take a couple of deep breaths and pat themsleves on the back for doing so well.
6) Chat in a relaxed manner to take their mind off the fear.
7) Only give them back control if it seems safe to do so, otherwise come up with some excues...the weather isn't suitable, you've got things you'd like to show them etc. Or just be honest - I've told big guys they're not relaxed enough and if they freeze on the controls I'm too small to get them off and we'll both die! Works for the over-confident ones; the really nervous ones will probably accept the weather excuse...with relief!
After that - play it by ear! But unless you're a professional instructor, why risk getting into this situation in the first place?
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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As PIC you are qualified to make any decision you like to maintain the safety of your aircraft and the best way to maintain safety if there's any doubt is to stay on the ground. As an instructor, rather surprisingly, we receive very little official guidance on how to handle unruly passengers/students apart from what our FIC instructor may have related to us through their own experiences during our training for the job. We get to chat with Special Branch on a regular basis but it's alarming how very little even they understand about our environment and what we do... but I digress.
There really is very little "in the book" on coping with unlawful interference in our environment because (I would guess) it largely depends on the specific circumstances of the situation. Most of what I know comes from experience... eg; a quiet passenger usually indicates a nervous one, but then so does one who talks incessantly! You just have to weigh it all up on its own merits and communication certainly is the only key.
As an instructor I get paid for that hassle but as a PPL holder out for a "jolly" I wouldn't possibly entertain it.
VFE.
There really is very little "in the book" on coping with unlawful interference in our environment because (I would guess) it largely depends on the specific circumstances of the situation. Most of what I know comes from experience... eg; a quiet passenger usually indicates a nervous one, but then so does one who talks incessantly! You just have to weigh it all up on its own merits and communication certainly is the only key.
As an instructor I get paid for that hassle but as a PPL holder out for a "jolly" I wouldn't possibly entertain it.
VFE.
