Grob 109b Review
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Grob 109b Review
Hello - I am hopefully joining a group with GROB 109B and have been looking for a 'user review' for it and havent been able to find anything.
DO people have comments good/bad on this model. My main concern is being 6'5" and physically fitting into the machine as i had to stop flying K21s as head was on the canopy and knees wedged, even without seats or parachute.
Aware of density altitude issues and climb performance being comparable to C152, but very keen to get back into the sportgliding and obvious benefits, combined with the limited touring capability
DO people have comments good/bad on this model. My main concern is being 6'5" and physically fitting into the machine as i had to stop flying K21s as head was on the canopy and knees wedged, even without seats or parachute.
Aware of density altitude issues and climb performance being comparable to C152, but very keen to get back into the sportgliding and obvious benefits, combined with the limited touring capability
but very keen to get back into the sportgliding and obvious benefits, combined with the limited touring capability
Cruise speed is a around 90Knots with an endurance in the region of 6 hours.
There is a lot of room for baggage, although at first glance you wouldnt think it.
There are weight issues. See the Flight manual for details.
6ft 5 may be a problem Try one on first.
UV
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So it states a ratio of 28:1 which on the surface of it is around half of most sports gliders so that obviously isnt great but still usable.
Concerned about the wind penetration comment there - Is that just whilst in the glide or under power, penetration shouldnt alter whether under power or not? Do people normally soar/thermal under idle power or is engine shutdown normal?
If penetration is an issue it is difficult to see how it would really be usable for touring?
I will need to sit in one, just had a message from someone who is 6'3" and says it is spacious so sounds hopeful?
Concerned about the wind penetration comment there - Is that just whilst in the glide or under power, penetration shouldnt alter whether under power or not? Do people normally soar/thermal under idle power or is engine shutdown normal?
If penetration is an issue it is difficult to see how it would really be usable for touring?
I will need to sit in one, just had a message from someone who is 6'3" and says it is spacious so sounds hopeful?
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It's quite a clever aeroplane.
It will cruise at 90kts with the prop in coarse pitch, burns 12 litres an hour and will glide OK - although it's not very often that you can find enough lift to keep you up for extended periods without resorting to the engine.
It will cruise at 90kts with the prop in coarse pitch, burns 12 litres an hour and will glide OK - although it's not very often that you can find enough lift to keep you up for extended periods without resorting to the engine.
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There is one in the UK also used for towing gliders and the various training aspects that other clubs use a Falke for. I had a ride in it and it was certainly nicer to fly than our Falke, and has effective airbrakes which a Falke (in my very limited experience) doesn't. However I'm 13" shorter than you so there whilst was no problem fitting in there was a problem seeing over the nose as I rounded out when landing. 
As far as I can remember we did most of the flight gliding with no motor, including landing it. It was a good day so no problems gaining height so long as it was flown at the right speed and centered in the thermals. However we weren't really going anywhere in particular. That might have been somewhat harder.
As far as I can remember we did most of the flight gliding with no motor, including landing it. It was a good day so no problems gaining height so long as it was flown at the right speed and centered in the thermals. However we weren't really going anywhere in particular. That might have been somewhat harder.
28:1 and no penetration reminds me of a Blanik. One good and gusty day I was 5000' AGL in a Blanik and just squeaked back from 7 nm out after a 90 degree wind shift.
Works out to a 10:1 glide. The engine will come in handy
Works out to a 10:1 glide. The engine will come in handy
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Try a Duo Discus
Probably way too late, But as a (baby) pilot who has flown both the K21 (100+ Hours) and the Grob 109b (50 hours), I can help. Unless you like a really laid back seating position, the 109B has no more room than a K21. I like to sit right back in the k21 and a bit more upright in the 109. In either aircraft I have only a couple of inches above my head and I am only 5' 10". Others have said it, and it is true, the 109 is a great GA aircraft but it is a truely awful glider. I have no idea how they can quote 28:1 because with the engine off and the prop in full feather you had better be close to a landable field! (great for field landing training, but do not expect to soar).
My last comment is that if you are big and you want to glide, try the duo discus. It is a full-on hot ship and the cockpit can accept much taller people than the K21. Failing this, you will have to wait for the most windless of summer's days when somebody might let you fly the open top T21 trainer!
Hope I am not too late and you read this.
Zak
My last comment is that if you are big and you want to glide, try the duo discus. It is a full-on hot ship and the cockpit can accept much taller people than the K21. Failing this, you will have to wait for the most windless of summer's days when somebody might let you fly the open top T21 trainer!
Hope I am not too late and you read this.
Zak
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I'm 6'3 and flew the G109B as the air cadets Vigilant, did approx 50hrs on it and there was bags of room. Pretty sure one of the other instructors on our VGS was 6'5" (he was taller than me anyway) and never heard him complain about lack of space, we flew with parachutes also.
Not much of a glider though so we didn't often turn the engine off.....
Not sure if the seats are different on the Civiy and Military versions however I'm sure someone else who has flown both can comment?
Not much of a glider though so we didn't often turn the engine off.....
Not sure if the seats are different on the Civiy and Military versions however I'm sure someone else who has flown both can comment?
Last edited by Unusual Attitude; 13th Sep 2010 at 22:03.
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I currently fly the 109 and find it's a fun aeroplane. I do a bit of soaring and a bit of touring and I think it's a good compromise aeroplane in that respect.
It's a typical Grob in that it is heavy on the controls and not particularly well harmonised. But you can get it to go up Ok in a thermal. usually I just run the engine at tickover while I establish in the thermal and then feather the prop.The viz is good and there is plenty of room in the cockpit. I would think 6'3" pilots would be OK.
On a windy day it can be interesting to ground handle, but on approach it runs in like it's on rails.
If I had the cash I would consider buying one.
Zakinflight - not sure you read the posters comments - I'm sure he'd love to buy a duo-discus but he's looking at a Group 109 !!!
Arc
It's a typical Grob in that it is heavy on the controls and not particularly well harmonised. But you can get it to go up Ok in a thermal. usually I just run the engine at tickover while I establish in the thermal and then feather the prop.The viz is good and there is plenty of room in the cockpit. I would think 6'3" pilots would be OK.
On a windy day it can be interesting to ground handle, but on approach it runs in like it's on rails.
If I had the cash I would consider buying one.
Zakinflight - not sure you read the posters comments - I'm sure he'd love to buy a duo-discus but he's looking at a Group 109 !!!
Arc
Well the 109b is typical Grob,
heavy on the rudder and you need a little bit taildragger experience.
When the heavy T-tail starts moving, you have to be ready to catch it.
The Schemp-Hirth airbrakes are very effective with no negative effects on the trim and allow very steep descents.
Take off performance with the standard Grob engine (87 HP) ist not the best, with a 2.4 L Limbach Turbo (Korff conversion to 130 up to 140 HP) its a real fun airplane suitable for glider towing.
The laminar profile of the 109b has no problems with rain (the 109A is very rain sensitive!), but you lose vison out of the cockpit on approach or in the flare, because the water will stand on the canopy. (The remedy: Fly a fast approach (150 to 170 km/h) and brake with the airbrakes short of touchdown).
With more than 6 feet you will get a problem with head space.
Greetings from Germany
Thomas
who flew the normal G109b and still flies the Korff Grob from a 500 meter gras strip.
PS: Interesting links:
http://www.btinternet.com/~Sites/G-CBLY/54-1986-05.pdf
Grob G109 Handling Notes
heavy on the rudder and you need a little bit taildragger experience.
When the heavy T-tail starts moving, you have to be ready to catch it.
The Schemp-Hirth airbrakes are very effective with no negative effects on the trim and allow very steep descents.
Take off performance with the standard Grob engine (87 HP) ist not the best, with a 2.4 L Limbach Turbo (Korff conversion to 130 up to 140 HP) its a real fun airplane suitable for glider towing.
The laminar profile of the 109b has no problems with rain (the 109A is very rain sensitive!), but you lose vison out of the cockpit on approach or in the flare, because the water will stand on the canopy. (The remedy: Fly a fast approach (150 to 170 km/h) and brake with the airbrakes short of touchdown).
With more than 6 feet you will get a problem with head space.
Greetings from Germany
Thomas
who flew the normal G109b and still flies the Korff Grob from a 500 meter gras strip.
PS: Interesting links:
http://www.btinternet.com/~Sites/G-CBLY/54-1986-05.pdf
Grob G109 Handling Notes
Last edited by krohmie; 14th Sep 2010 at 20:07.
