Another Cessna SkyCatcher bites the dust
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Another Cessna SkyCatcher bites the dust
New Cessna plane crashes during Kan. test flight | State & Regional - Wire | Wichita Eagle
Difficult times for the C-162. Perhaps we should start naming it the SkyCrasher
I think I'll stick to the PA-26 for now.
Difficult times for the C-162. Perhaps we should start naming it the SkyCrasher
I think I'll stick to the PA-26 for now.
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I suggest its these guys pushing the aircraft to its limits will make it safer in the future for the rest of us including students.Lets not forget litigation is the life blood of plenty of lawyers.
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Stepwilk do you have inside info or are you just stiring up sh** for the sake of getting attention. Cessna have always based their business strategy on student starts, they kit started it in the mid 60s by building 5000 C150s a year and they kick started it again after the product liabilty issue (greedy lawyers).
In these tough times we can do without wild speculation.
In these tough times we can do without wild speculation.
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Well it's performance and engine isn't my cup of tea. However lots of people have placed orders for it and well frankly its got to be better than the 30 plus year old rubbish we use at present. I for one very much hope they don't drop it and would be surprised if that is the case due to the number of orders that have already been placed.
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Gordon Field, Flight Int'l says Cessna is "considering" dropping the project, and my guess is they will. I don't have time to bother "stirring up scheiss."
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Rumour confirmed by Cessna
It seems a Cessna spokesman confirmed the company is reviewing the future of the project.
Might Cessna be looking for a way out of the project given the current economic downturn? The second crash is certainly an argument to get out now. Test flights push the plane beyond the certification limits but crashing the thing is never a good outcome.
I'm afraid to us current circumstances simply mean a further stagnation of the evolution of GA planes. So it's back to the gas-guzzling Continental and Lycoming powered Pipers and Cessnas. I have had to start some of these this winter after a week in the unheated hangar and it was not fun but rather black magic if you ask me
Might Cessna be looking for a way out of the project given the current economic downturn? The second crash is certainly an argument to get out now. Test flights push the plane beyond the certification limits but crashing the thing is never a good outcome.
I'm afraid to us current circumstances simply mean a further stagnation of the evolution of GA planes. So it's back to the gas-guzzling Continental and Lycoming powered Pipers and Cessnas. I have had to start some of these this winter after a week in the unheated hangar and it was not fun but rather black magic if you ask me
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I don't think the Cessna Skycatcher was exactly going to end the "stagnation" in certified GA R&D. It was a modernised version of the C152, or similar, not a lot more. The buyers would have been traditional Cessna customers.
The thing which would really benefit more people than anything else, and it is available right now, is the wholesale dumping of carbs for fuel injection. My IO540 starts perfectly from cold; only hot starts require the different procedure but those work every time as well.
People go for glass cockpits, and at the same time have the carb heat lever to fiddle with every so often
Mind you, a commonly deployed training plane fitted with a big GPS (one so big and obvious that no instructor will turn it off except for special backup-instrument training) would do wonders for the UK GA scene, which for the most part is still in the 19th century when it comes to navigation
But even this is a bit moot since America has moved on quite a while ago, and the UK training scene would not be upgrading for many years anyway.
The thing which would really benefit more people than anything else, and it is available right now, is the wholesale dumping of carbs for fuel injection. My IO540 starts perfectly from cold; only hot starts require the different procedure but those work every time as well.
People go for glass cockpits, and at the same time have the carb heat lever to fiddle with every so often
Mind you, a commonly deployed training plane fitted with a big GPS (one so big and obvious that no instructor will turn it off except for special backup-instrument training) would do wonders for the UK GA scene, which for the most part is still in the 19th century when it comes to navigation
But even this is a bit moot since America has moved on quite a while ago, and the UK training scene would not be upgrading for many years anyway.
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A missed chance
I don't think the Cessna Skycatcher was exactly going to end the "stagnation" in certified GA R&D. It was a modernised version of the C152, or similar, not a lot more. The buyers would have been traditional Cessna customers.
Concerning engines: too bad the Thielert effort ended (or isn't it?) in tears. Any ideas what is happening with the Austro engine? Let's hope they get that one right. We really need to get rid of the Avgas engines.
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The Austro engine is progressing, with AFAIK Diamond being their principal customer.
Diamond are quoting USD 140,000 to retrofit a DA42 with these engines, which is a huge bundle considering they will get the old Thielerts back and can use them as cores in the exchange market.
Taking half that figure, I don't think it is competitive for something like a Skycatcher. The OEM (volume) price for an engine which would interest Cessna would have to be much nearer to USD 10,000.
Cessna are IMHO not going to get involved with another Diesel, having escaped the Thielert debacle by the skin of their teeth due to fortunate timing (nobody actually took delivery of their Thielert option by the time T went bust). Especially one from Europe, where doing due diligence is pretty difficult for them. Whereas Diamond are far closer to the actual goings-on at Austro than any arms-length customer of theirs will ever be. Also, if I was Cessna, I would not touch Austro because of their close association with Diamond (a competitor of Cessna).
My guess is that Cessna will wait to see how the avgas situation in the USA pans out, and Lyco/Conti are absolutely not just going to sit there and watch their empires wiped out .
Diamond are quoting USD 140,000 to retrofit a DA42 with these engines, which is a huge bundle considering they will get the old Thielerts back and can use them as cores in the exchange market.
Taking half that figure, I don't think it is competitive for something like a Skycatcher. The OEM (volume) price for an engine which would interest Cessna would have to be much nearer to USD 10,000.
Cessna are IMHO not going to get involved with another Diesel, having escaped the Thielert debacle by the skin of their teeth due to fortunate timing (nobody actually took delivery of their Thielert option by the time T went bust). Especially one from Europe, where doing due diligence is pretty difficult for them. Whereas Diamond are far closer to the actual goings-on at Austro than any arms-length customer of theirs will ever be. Also, if I was Cessna, I would not touch Austro because of their close association with Diamond (a competitor of Cessna).
My guess is that Cessna will wait to see how the avgas situation in the USA pans out, and Lyco/Conti are absolutely not just going to sit there and watch their empires wiped out .
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Don't know.
I think it will depend on the security of avgas in the USA.
Diesels have the great advantage - for those European pilots who do serious touring - of burning avtur, but they are not spectacularly more efficient in SFC than avgas engines running LOP. And avtur is heavier so there would be no gain in aircraft range.
BTW, does anybody know how the self-declared avtur tax is supposed to work?
I think it will depend on the security of avgas in the USA.
Diesels have the great advantage - for those European pilots who do serious touring - of burning avtur, but they are not spectacularly more efficient in SFC than avgas engines running LOP. And avtur is heavier so there would be no gain in aircraft range.
BTW, does anybody know how the self-declared avtur tax is supposed to work?
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BTW, does anybody know how the self-declared avtur tax is supposed to work?
If the flight is a training flight then there is no duty to pay.
I am not sure how private owners are supposed to pay this, perhaps the fuel retailer puts it on the invoice.
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Unrecoverable spin, again
Prelim report is out:
CEN09FA220
Yet another unrecoverable spin
. Not the best platform for a basic flight training aircraft it seems to me.
CEN09FA220
Yet another unrecoverable spin
. Not the best platform for a basic flight training aircraft it seems to me.
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Glad the pilot walked away.
They should call this thing the "Cowcatcher"
A N. American railway enthusiast will understand that term
Wouldn't it be simpler to just revive the 152, a good solid, proven design, and update it with modern instruments and avionics?
Beech
They should call this thing the "Cowcatcher"
A N. American railway enthusiast will understand that term
Wouldn't it be simpler to just revive the 152, a good solid, proven design, and update it with modern instruments and avionics?
Beech
I think the C152 is too heavy for the LSA category (600kg MTOM).
Regarding the spin, I read a company statement saying that it was a cross controlled power on spin he couln't recover from. I am not familiar with certification requirements, but I don't think that's usually a requirement. So it might well be a problem that would not normally be encountered, even when spinning the aircraft intentionally or accidently.
Regarding the spin, I read a company statement saying that it was a cross controlled power on spin he couln't recover from. I am not familiar with certification requirements, but I don't think that's usually a requirement. So it might well be a problem that would not normally be encountered, even when spinning the aircraft intentionally or accidently.
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If it is going to be FAR 23 certified, it must be impossible to obtain unrecoverable spins with any use of the flight or engine power controls either at the entry into or during the spin.
... within certified range of CG and weight, I would add.
Our good old C152 will also be unrecoverable if you are heavy and have CG too far forward, as I recall.
Our good old C152 will also be unrecoverable if you are heavy and have CG too far forward, as I recall.
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"Our good old C152 will also be unrecoverable if you are heavy and have CG too far forward, as I recall."
- or perhaps aft...
So people claim that the 2 spin accidents on the C162 flight test programme are possible because it is being operated well outside the normal flight regime.
How many other aircraft have spun in during their flight testing? Twice....
- or perhaps aft...
So people claim that the 2 spin accidents on the C162 flight test programme are possible because it is being operated well outside the normal flight regime.
How many other aircraft have spun in during their flight testing? Twice....