convert NPPL to JAA PPL ???
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convert NPPL to JAA PPL ???
Hi all
I am currently training for my NPPL in a c42 which i understand is not classed as a SSEA, i found this below :
"The holder of a valid NPPL with Microlight Class Rating or UK PPL (M) licence without restrictions
who wishes to obtain a SSEA Class Rating shall:
a. Produce the NPPL or UK PPL (M);
b. Produce logbook evidence of currency on Microlight aircraft;
c Carry out such SSEA conversion training as is judged necessary by the FI(A) or CRI(SPA)
conducting the training to achieve the required standard for the applicant to take the NPPL
NST and GST in a SSEA. This training must include:
(1) Not less than 1 hour of dual instrument appreciation;
(2) 2 hours stall awareness/spin avoidance training;
(3) Differences training for Microlight pilots whose Microlight flying has been solely on
flexwing aircraft;
(4) Not less than the 32 hours required minimum total flight time for the NPPL with SSEA
Class Rating, which may be a combination of both Microlight and SSEA flying.
d. Pass the JAR-FCL PPL (A) theoretical examination in Aircraft (General) & Principles of Flight;
e. Hold a valid NPPL Medical Declaration or JAA Class 1 or 2 medical certificate;
f. Pass the NPPL NST and GST in a SSEA."
Basically my question is according to the above, could i get my NPPL microlight licence in my C42 which takes 35 hours minimum anyway and then do 3 hours experience in a SSEA using the 35 hours from the c42 to transfer to the SSEA licence so i dont have to do another 35 in a SSEA ?
(obviously i know the hours are just industry minimums and it can take alot more depending on the student, i just dont want to do 35 hours in the c42 and then do the whole same thing again just to get a single engine licence)
Thanks in advance !!
Jack
I am currently training for my NPPL in a c42 which i understand is not classed as a SSEA, i found this below :
"The holder of a valid NPPL with Microlight Class Rating or UK PPL (M) licence without restrictions
who wishes to obtain a SSEA Class Rating shall:
a. Produce the NPPL or UK PPL (M);
b. Produce logbook evidence of currency on Microlight aircraft;
c Carry out such SSEA conversion training as is judged necessary by the FI(A) or CRI(SPA)
conducting the training to achieve the required standard for the applicant to take the NPPL
NST and GST in a SSEA. This training must include:
(1) Not less than 1 hour of dual instrument appreciation;
(2) 2 hours stall awareness/spin avoidance training;
(3) Differences training for Microlight pilots whose Microlight flying has been solely on
flexwing aircraft;
(4) Not less than the 32 hours required minimum total flight time for the NPPL with SSEA
Class Rating, which may be a combination of both Microlight and SSEA flying.
d. Pass the JAR-FCL PPL (A) theoretical examination in Aircraft (General) & Principles of Flight;
e. Hold a valid NPPL Medical Declaration or JAA Class 1 or 2 medical certificate;
f. Pass the NPPL NST and GST in a SSEA."
Basically my question is according to the above, could i get my NPPL microlight licence in my C42 which takes 35 hours minimum anyway and then do 3 hours experience in a SSEA using the 35 hours from the c42 to transfer to the SSEA licence so i dont have to do another 35 in a SSEA ?
(obviously i know the hours are just industry minimums and it can take alot more depending on the student, i just dont want to do 35 hours in the c42 and then do the whole same thing again just to get a single engine licence)
Thanks in advance !!
Jack
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You can add an SSEA rating to your NPPL. This would not give you a JAA PPL.
To do that you will need to do the JAA exams, training and skill test of which a small amount of the NPPL time will count.
To do that you will need to do the JAA exams, training and skill test of which a small amount of the NPPL time will count.
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ye i understand id have to do the exams with it, basically iwant to do commercial training but understand id have to get a single enige licence before i could start which is the jaa ppl ? i think,
so really it is going to be easier and save money if i just leave the nppl and do a single engine licence straight away ?
so really it is going to be easier and save money if i just leave the nppl and do a single engine licence straight away ?
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Thats your call. If you want to convert an NPPL to a JAA PPL then you will need to meet the requirements. That means all of the JAA exams, the flight training with an approved school/instructor (35 hours if converting from NPPL I think).
If you are going commercial then it certainly seems sensible to start off on the correct path.
If you are going commercial then it certainly seems sensible to start off on the correct path.
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Q Can I upgrade to a JAR-FCL PPL?
A Yes, up to 30 hours can be carried over as a credit towards a JAR-FCL PPL, as long as this flying training has been completed by a JAR qualified instructor and all JAR PPL exams have been passed. A further 15 hours minimum of training will be needed, of which 5 can be done in a simulator. Full details are provided in JARFCL 1.010(a).
A Yes, up to 30 hours can be carried over as a credit towards a JAR-FCL PPL, as long as this flying training has been completed by a JAR qualified instructor and all JAR PPL exams have been passed. A further 15 hours minimum of training will be needed, of which 5 can be done in a simulator. Full details are provided in JARFCL 1.010(a).
Just bear in mind Microlight hours do not count. If you add an SSEA rating to an NPPL it must be with a JAR Instructor but will generally not take 30 hours!
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Of course, if I understand it: it does not say what kind of training by a JAR instructor is required!
So get your microlight NPPL, convert to a SSEA NPPL, then do the whatever number of hours training on an SEP with a JAR instructor to get a night rating, say, and then sit your JAR GST as well as whatever you sit to get a night rating (or whatever) since the training hours for the "extra rating" will count for the basic JAR PPL minima! Plus your JAR exams!
So the C42 gets you flying. And no hour is wasted!
In the microlight world, there is no requirement to have any hours before you sit your GST - but there are minimum hours before you can apply for your licence!
Is it the same for JAR land? So can you do your test and then fly your "solo" hours as a JAR student rather than a NPPL pilot?
It's all wonderfully complex!
So get your microlight NPPL, convert to a SSEA NPPL, then do the whatever number of hours training on an SEP with a JAR instructor to get a night rating, say, and then sit your JAR GST as well as whatever you sit to get a night rating (or whatever) since the training hours for the "extra rating" will count for the basic JAR PPL minima! Plus your JAR exams!
So the C42 gets you flying. And no hour is wasted!
In the microlight world, there is no requirement to have any hours before you sit your GST - but there are minimum hours before you can apply for your licence!
Is it the same for JAR land? So can you do your test and then fly your "solo" hours as a JAR student rather than a NPPL pilot?
It's all wonderfully complex!
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I have an nppl microlight. Here's the facts-
You have to do 25 hours training before u can do your gst for microlights. U can then upgrade this to ssea rating with a few hours training. You will then have a nppl (m) (ssea). However as your microlight training wasn't done by a jar instructor, only 10 hours will be carried over towards JAR PPL.
Best to go straight for jar ppl.
However I did hear talk of nppl ssea licences being converted to eu licences under easa. Maybe they would convert your nppl m ssea to an eu licence then u cud carry the hours toward full jar ppl in a couple of years.
You have to do 25 hours training before u can do your gst for microlights. U can then upgrade this to ssea rating with a few hours training. You will then have a nppl (m) (ssea). However as your microlight training wasn't done by a jar instructor, only 10 hours will be carried over towards JAR PPL.
Best to go straight for jar ppl.
However I did hear talk of nppl ssea licences being converted to eu licences under easa. Maybe they would convert your nppl m ssea to an eu licence then u cud carry the hours toward full jar ppl in a couple of years.
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I have a JAR Instructor rating. If I teach a student for a NPPL (m) on a 3 axis microlight. They then take another 5 hours to get a SSEA rating.
If they then want to gain a JAR PPL do they still need to complete 20 odd hours with a JAR instructor?.
If they then want to gain a JAR PPL do they still need to complete 20 odd hours with a JAR instructor?.
See JAR-FCL 1.121(b).
The aeroplane upon which training is conducted must have 'a Certificate of Airworthiness' - I don't think Microlights have anything other than Permits to Fly?
Also, training for a JAR-FCL PPL(A) must be conducted at a RF / FTO using a licensed or government aerodrome.
The JAR-FCL PPL(A) 'upgrade' from NPPL (SSEA) was the best I could manage to negotiate with the CAA, given that they had their hands somewhat tied by the JAA's JAR-FCL requirements.
The aeroplane upon which training is conducted must have 'a Certificate of Airworthiness' - I don't think Microlights have anything other than Permits to Fly?
Also, training for a JAR-FCL PPL(A) must be conducted at a RF / FTO using a licensed or government aerodrome.
The JAR-FCL PPL(A) 'upgrade' from NPPL (SSEA) was the best I could manage to negotiate with the CAA, given that they had their hands somewhat tied by the JAA's JAR-FCL requirements.
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NPPL ssea to JAR-FCL sep (land)
I have had a good read of lazors, JAR-FCL 1 and the NPPL website and understand that the exams must be competed within 18 months to get 2 years validity from the last exam.
Is the the student required to re-sit the JAR PPL exams again if they are out of validity for the application?
Thanks JL
Is the the student required to re-sit the JAR PPL exams again if they are out of validity for the application?
Thanks JL
From LASORS:
These requirements refer to pilots who hold a current and valid NPPL with SSEA Class Rating and do NOT refer to pilots who have yet to obtain a licence.
This means that you merely need to have accumulated these totals before appyling for a JAR-FCL PPL(A) and you may count your SSEA time achieved during NPPL training towards them.
This requirement was written in the days when a 'consolidated' single exam was proposed for NPPL training. This now seems to have died the death, so anyone trained from scratch on SSEAs who now holds a NPPL won't need to retake them. The problem arises with Microlight conversion; currently, the NPPL (Microlight) does not require the applicant to have passed the Flight Performance and Planning or Communications (PPL) exams, both of which are requirements for a JAR-FCL PPL(A). The additional theoretical knowledge examination required for NPPL (Microlight) holders wishing to add a SSEA Class Rating to their NPPL is to pass the JAR-FCL PPL (A) theoretical examination in Aircraft (General) & Principles of Flight, so if you wish to move from NPPL(Microlight) to NPPL (SSEA) and thence to JAR-FCL PPL(A), you will need to pass the Flight Performance & Planning and Communications (PPL) exams.
Self evident.
Upgrade to JAR-FCL PPL(A)
The holder of a NPPL with SSEA aircraft rating wishing to obtain a JAR-FCL PPL(A) shall have completed on SEP Aeroplanes:-
The holder of a NPPL with SSEA aircraft rating wishing to obtain a JAR-FCL PPL(A) shall have completed on SEP Aeroplanes:-
a. At least 45 hours flight time, of which at least 35 hours must have been as a pilot of SEP aeroplanes. A maximum of 5 hours may be completed in an approved FNPT or flight simulator. This flight time must include:-
1. 20 hours dual instruction of SEP aeroplanes with a JAR qualified instructor;
2. 10 hours solo flight time on SEP aeroplanes which must include 5 hours solo cross country flight time including one cross country flight of at least 270 km (150 nm), during which full stop landings at two different aerodromes different from the aerodrome of departure shall be made as per JAR-FCL 1.125.
2. 10 hours solo flight time on SEP aeroplanes which must include 5 hours solo cross country flight time including one cross country flight of at least 270 km (150 nm), during which full stop landings at two different aerodromes different from the aerodrome of departure shall be made as per JAR-FCL 1.125.
b. Have passed the JAR-FCL PPL(A) Theoretical Knowledge Examinations in all subjects.
c. Hold a valid JAR-FCL Class 1 or 2 medical certificate.
d. Pass the JAR-FCL PPL(A) Skill Test as detailed in Section C1.4.
d. Pass the JAR-FCL PPL(A) Skill Test as detailed in Section C1.4.
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Sorry to complicate the issue,but I have a related question.
I have a JAR PPL but am flying as unrestricted NPPL due to medical reasons.
My JAR PPL licence will expire next year and then I will be left with the NPPL licence on renewal.
If I pass the class 2 CAA medical after expiry of my JAR PPL,when I am flying on the NPPL, can I then revert back to a JAR PPL without the need for any flight tests or exams (which I have already passed to get my original JAR PPL?
I hope all this makes sense.
Lister
I have a JAR PPL but am flying as unrestricted NPPL due to medical reasons.
My JAR PPL licence will expire next year and then I will be left with the NPPL licence on renewal.
If I pass the class 2 CAA medical after expiry of my JAR PPL,when I am flying on the NPPL, can I then revert back to a JAR PPL without the need for any flight tests or exams (which I have already passed to get my original JAR PPL?
I hope all this makes sense.
Lister
To have your JAR-FCL PPL(A) re-issued, you merely need to send off the application with proof of a valid JAA Medical Certificate (plus the fee). If you've been keeping your SEP Class Rating valid (as under JAR-FCL), albeit restricted to SSEA privileges by virtue of medical limitations, you can then carry on as before, with no need to pass any exams or flight tests.
However, if your SEP Class Rating has lapsed, you will need to fly a renewal LST with an Examiner.
However, if your SEP Class Rating has lapsed, you will need to fly a renewal LST with an Examiner.
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BEagle-Thank you
At the moment I think I will be happy to carry on with the NPPL licence and medical requirement.
It will cost me around £800 per year in medical tests to get my JAR PPL back, and I doubt if it's worth the large additional amount for the sort of flying I do,but nice to know it's there if I want it,depending on medical results.
Lister
It will cost me around £800 per year in medical tests to get my JAR PPL back, and I doubt if it's worth the large additional amount for the sort of flying I do,but nice to know it's there if I want it,depending on medical results.
Lister
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I have just done my upgrade from NPPL SSEA to JAR.
I did all the extra dual hours etc (i had to do the exams as i did the upgrade from NPPL Microlight so had only done the Aircraft Gen. which was a pain!!)
I did my GFT and the school signed it all off and i took it all to gatwick. Even with 350 hours (200 group A) and solo flights all round europe to spain, austria etc (hence the need to upgrade!) they threw it back at me as i had not done a cross country!! i tried to argue but
so i had to go back to the school and spend £500 on a circuit with an instructor 
then the regimental southend > shorham > lydd > southend and the massive sigh of reliefe on my instructors face when i got back in one piece!! (i could have flown to spain and back in my RV6 for £500!!)
the X country paperwork has been duly faxed to gatwick (i left the rest of the stuff with them) so i am just waiting now
I did all the extra dual hours etc (i had to do the exams as i did the upgrade from NPPL Microlight so had only done the Aircraft Gen. which was a pain!!)
I did my GFT and the school signed it all off and i took it all to gatwick. Even with 350 hours (200 group A) and solo flights all round europe to spain, austria etc (hence the need to upgrade!) they threw it back at me as i had not done a cross country!! i tried to argue but
so i had to go back to the school and spend £500 on a circuit with an instructor then the regimental southend > shorham > lydd > southend and the massive sigh of reliefe on my instructors face when i got back in one piece!! (i could have flown to spain and back in my RV6 for £500!!)the X country paperwork has been duly faxed to gatwick (i left the rest of the stuff with them) so i am just waiting now
It is a clear JAR-FCL requirement to complete a 'qualifying cross-country':
How did the school manage to 'sign off' your application without having completed this section? If you have any complaints, perhaps you should take it up with them and NOT with the CAA.
How did the school manage to 'sign off' your application without having completed this section? If you have any complaints, perhaps you should take it up with them and NOT with the CAA.