Cessna 150's getting cheaper?
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Pilot DAR
Again in the UK things are different. We have EASA and part M and CAMOS. Then you have the non certified parts (OK on LAA) which are identical to certified ones which cost many times the price. The Inspector system is also set up to help and teach. Against this European H & S has stopped non employees entering maintenance arrears and doing your own work on a C of A aircraft can be very difficult. In some arrears it is common, normally when the local engineer encourages it (Derby in the UK for example), but it is not common in the UK.
I built my machine, so I understand it, but I would have another learning curve if I were to step outside the carbon fiber / Rotax / LAA world.
Rod1
Again in the UK things are different. We have EASA and part M and CAMOS. Then you have the non certified parts (OK on LAA) which are identical to certified ones which cost many times the price. The Inspector system is also set up to help and teach. Against this European H & S has stopped non employees entering maintenance arrears and doing your own work on a C of A aircraft can be very difficult. In some arrears it is common, normally when the local engineer encourages it (Derby in the UK for example), but it is not common in the UK.
I built my machine, so I understand it, but I would have another learning curve if I were to step outside the carbon fiber / Rotax / LAA world.
Rod1
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I would have thought if a 150 fits your bill now is a good time to buy - or at least very soon.
Prices are near to rock bottom although I suspect they will fall further.
Lest it be forgotten the 150 is still good at what it does. Buy one as cheap as chips and be prepared to spend perhaps double again and you could have a beatiful aircraft for a whole lot less that its modern day replacement (the Skycatcher).
Prices are near to rock bottom although I suspect they will fall further.
Lest it be forgotten the 150 is still good at what it does. Buy one as cheap as chips and be prepared to spend perhaps double again and you could have a beatiful aircraft for a whole lot less that its modern day replacement (the Skycatcher).
After 25 yrs in aviation as a commercial pilot, owner of several airplanes (one of which was a C 150 ), and married to an licensed aircraft mechanic I have learned a few things. The most important is the sum of the parts of a light US built aircraft (that is if you started with a data plate and then bought all the parts to required to assemble a whole aircraft) will cost about 10 times the cost of the aircraft. I have a few rules which I use to evaluate a potential aircraft.
1) The most cost effective approach is to buy the very best example of the model you can find, as this means someone else has spent all the money, not you.
2) If possible buy an aircraft with a known history.
3) Don't economize on the pre purchase inspection. The best way is to have the aircraft flown to your shop and looked at by your engineer. You may end up wasting some money paying for an inspection on a unsuitable aircraft, but that will still be cheaper in the long run than buying a dog.
4) For those contemplating their first aircraft I would also add 2 additional points
a) If it is not on the aircraft it won't need to be fixed. Be realistic about
your needs and stay away from fancy radio fits, constant speed
props and especially retractable gear.
b) Develop a realistic operating budget before you buy. Talk to other
aircraft owners and groups and find out what they have spent over
a multi year period.
The good news is my first four aircraft/aircraft shares sold for equal to or more than I paid for them so it is possible to have a happy ownership experience, not to mentioned the appeal of not having to fly clapped out POS
flying club rentals.
1) The most cost effective approach is to buy the very best example of the model you can find, as this means someone else has spent all the money, not you.
2) If possible buy an aircraft with a known history.
3) Don't economize on the pre purchase inspection. The best way is to have the aircraft flown to your shop and looked at by your engineer. You may end up wasting some money paying for an inspection on a unsuitable aircraft, but that will still be cheaper in the long run than buying a dog.
4) For those contemplating their first aircraft I would also add 2 additional points
a) If it is not on the aircraft it won't need to be fixed. Be realistic about
your needs and stay away from fancy radio fits, constant speed
props and especially retractable gear.
b) Develop a realistic operating budget before you buy. Talk to other
aircraft owners and groups and find out what they have spent over
a multi year period.
The good news is my first four aircraft/aircraft shares sold for equal to or more than I paid for them so it is possible to have a happy ownership experience, not to mentioned the appeal of not having to fly clapped out POS
flying club rentals.
Moderator
I could not agree more with Big Piston's advice....
Add to that that the fair market value of my 150 after 22 years and 2400 hours flying, time is 3.5 times what I paid for it, or 2.5 times if you take off the cost of upgrades I've done (mostly paint and interior).
So it's increased more than twice it's value, while I've flown it 2400 hours... What a good investment, I wish I'd bought a half dozen back then!
Pilot DAR
Add to that that the fair market value of my 150 after 22 years and 2400 hours flying, time is 3.5 times what I paid for it, or 2.5 times if you take off the cost of upgrades I've done (mostly paint and interior).
So it's increased more than twice it's value, while I've flown it 2400 hours... What a good investment, I wish I'd bought a half dozen back then!
Pilot DAR
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Originally Posted by PilotDAR
I could not agree more with Big Piston's advice....
Originally Posted by Big Pistons Forever
After 25 yrs in aviation as a commercial pilot, owner of several airplanes (one of which was a C 150 ), and married to an licensed aircraft mechanic I have learned a few things.
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With that I would agree. The sum of the parts will always cost you considerably more, however much you kid yourself otherwise - unless perhaps you can do the work yourself. If you buy and restore cars and pay someone to do it for you, you will get back a fraction of what you spent. The same is true of houses and boats and .. .. .. aircraft.
However, it depends on whether you are doing it for an investment.
If you want a reasonably priced aircraft in great condition you can still buy a poor one, as long as it is structurally sound, fit some up date avionics, give the airframe a respray, get the engine zero timed and end up with a really good "modern day" classic. Dont expect to ever get your money back, and if you can buy one to the same standard it will inevitably be cheaper. However, you will gain a certain satisfaction form the project and will end up with an aircraft you know is "right" (so long as you are very careful with the people you use) and that is exactly how you want it. Keep it for ten years, and it will serve you very well indeed. I speak from experience.
However, it depends on whether you are doing it for an investment.
If you want a reasonably priced aircraft in great condition you can still buy a poor one, as long as it is structurally sound, fit some up date avionics, give the airframe a respray, get the engine zero timed and end up with a really good "modern day" classic. Dont expect to ever get your money back, and if you can buy one to the same standard it will inevitably be cheaper. However, you will gain a certain satisfaction form the project and will end up with an aircraft you know is "right" (so long as you are very careful with the people you use) and that is exactly how you want it. Keep it for ten years, and it will serve you very well indeed. I speak from experience.
Fuji Abound
If you have the financial resources to "do over" a ugly but sound aircraft than you will an have an aircraft that is undisputably "yours",in that its appearance and equipment will be to your spec, not the previous owner(s). You will also have the comfort of knowing exactly how and what work was done to your aircraft. But as you pointed out, make overs are expensive and you should have no expectation of getting much of your money back.
However I took the post by the orginator of this thread to mean he/she was looking for cheap wings and had no previous ownership experience. I would not recommend a "project" airplane to someone in those circumstances. It is possible to buy a ratty simple airplane like a C 150 get a couple of trouble free years and then flog it, but he risk of the aircraft developing very expensive engine/radio/airframe issues is high. You will then end up with an aircraft that is probably beyond economic repair and likely lose all your money.
Knowledge is critical to successfull ownership and a good start for prospective owners would be to search this forum as Fuji Abound and others have posted a lot of good info.
If you have the financial resources to "do over" a ugly but sound aircraft than you will an have an aircraft that is undisputably "yours",in that its appearance and equipment will be to your spec, not the previous owner(s). You will also have the comfort of knowing exactly how and what work was done to your aircraft. But as you pointed out, make overs are expensive and you should have no expectation of getting much of your money back.
However I took the post by the orginator of this thread to mean he/she was looking for cheap wings and had no previous ownership experience. I would not recommend a "project" airplane to someone in those circumstances. It is possible to buy a ratty simple airplane like a C 150 get a couple of trouble free years and then flog it, but he risk of the aircraft developing very expensive engine/radio/airframe issues is high. You will then end up with an aircraft that is probably beyond economic repair and likely lose all your money.
Knowledge is critical to successfull ownership and a good start for prospective owners would be to search this forum as Fuji Abound and others have posted a lot of good info.
I may as well say this before somebody else does.
For a "cheap" ownership experience, buy a share in something much better with your money.
Running costs, experience problems and aggro get shared, and you'll still fly it as much in reality.
Think about it - all of a knackered C150, or (selected at random) 1/4 of an RV6, Arrow or Europa. Which is going to give you the most pleasure?
G
For a "cheap" ownership experience, buy a share in something much better with your money.
Running costs, experience problems and aggro get shared, and you'll still fly it as much in reality.
Think about it - all of a knackered C150, or (selected at random) 1/4 of an RV6, Arrow or Europa. Which is going to give you the most pleasure?
G
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Both the last two posters
I could not agree more.
I suppose it was the usual thread drift or thread development.
A "project" aircraft is no place at all for a "beginner". There is a great deal to learn, and, as result, every opportunity to make all sorts of mistakes in this business.
For a "beginner" I have no hesitation at all in recommending they should start with a good group. Even if you have the money and want your own aircraft that may not be a bad thing. Shadow the group member responsible for running the aircraft for a year or so and get a feel for how the maintenance works, what paperwork needs to be done, the issues that inevitably arise etc. Lessons learnt buy your own aircraft if you wish. By then you will have a much better idea whether you have the knowledge, committment and desire to take on a "project" or would do better to buy a "well sorted" aircraft.
I could not agree more.
I suppose it was the usual thread drift or thread development.
A "project" aircraft is no place at all for a "beginner". There is a great deal to learn, and, as result, every opportunity to make all sorts of mistakes in this business.
For a "beginner" I have no hesitation at all in recommending they should start with a good group. Even if you have the money and want your own aircraft that may not be a bad thing. Shadow the group member responsible for running the aircraft for a year or so and get a feel for how the maintenance works, what paperwork needs to be done, the issues that inevitably arise etc. Lessons learnt buy your own aircraft if you wish. By then you will have a much better idea whether you have the knowledge, committment and desire to take on a "project" or would do better to buy a "well sorted" aircraft.
I bought a 150 for £2500 about 14 years ago ratty but not accident damaged. Cost of the project was £14,000 including purchase, respray, overhauled engine, and parts.
Labour not included in this price!!!!!!!!!!!
Labour not included in this price!!!!!!!!!!!
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Buying a C150 is like buying any(*) other aircraft. The condition is all important, if you buy a rough one you are going to get big bills.
Get a proper pre-purchase inspection and get an a/c that requires as little work as you can afford. Maint/work will always cost more than you are quoted. I owned my C150 for 7 years, all I needed to do was a little engine work in this time - but it was in tiptop condition when I bought it and I kept it that way. It was not a cheap one, but I think in the long run it worked out cheaper than a less expensive one over the 7 years I owned it.
I don't agree a C150 will require any more airframe work than any other a/c. In fact a C150 has usually less problems associated with them than some other types available. They are common, where you go the engineering firm will be familiar with one and parts will not be a problem - which you could find with other a/c. Hence * above!
If you want cheaper (it will never be cheap!) try share/group. Or what about permit? They are not all expensive like RV's. What about a Luscombe - that's a nice a/c. I hear they are great, a few groups about also.
Tim
BEXIL160 - pleased to help. TRAFFIC service please......
Get a proper pre-purchase inspection and get an a/c that requires as little work as you can afford. Maint/work will always cost more than you are quoted. I owned my C150 for 7 years, all I needed to do was a little engine work in this time - but it was in tiptop condition when I bought it and I kept it that way. It was not a cheap one, but I think in the long run it worked out cheaper than a less expensive one over the 7 years I owned it.
I don't agree a C150 will require any more airframe work than any other a/c. In fact a C150 has usually less problems associated with them than some other types available. They are common, where you go the engineering firm will be familiar with one and parts will not be a problem - which you could find with other a/c. Hence * above!
If you want cheaper (it will never be cheap!) try share/group. Or what about permit? They are not all expensive like RV's. What about a Luscombe - that's a nice a/c. I hear they are great, a few groups about also.
Tim
BEXIL160 - pleased to help. TRAFFIC service please......
