Using JAA ATPLs for PPL?
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Using JAA ATPLs for PPL?
Hi, I was on an intergrated course and did all 14 ATPLs, however, I came off that course and will now be going modular.
I therefore need to get my PPL first. Can my ATPL exams count as my PPL theory exams or do I need to do the PPL exams as well as having already done the ATPL exams? ATPLs are JAA UK CAA and same with the PPL I want to get.
Any help would be great
I therefore need to get my PPL first. Can my ATPL exams count as my PPL theory exams or do I need to do the PPL exams as well as having already done the ATPL exams? ATPLs are JAA UK CAA and same with the PPL I want to get.
Any help would be great
Yes - you are credited the theoretical knowledge requirements for the PPL(A), by virtue of having passed the ATPL(A) examinations. See LASORS C1.3:
The holder of a valid pass in the former professional UK Navigation and Technical ground examinations (Aeroplanes) or the JAR-FCL CPL(A) or ATPL(A) examinations will be credited this requirement.
(Applicants who have taken and passed the Flight Engineer examinations may not claim this credit).
(Applicants who have taken and passed the Flight Engineer examinations may not claim this credit).
A point that you have to bear in mind when changing from Integrated to Modular is that the exams only have 3 years to run and you have to obtain both the CPL and the IR within that time frame. You will need a minimum of 200 hours before you can get the CPL and can't even start the course until you have at least 150 hours.
In most cases if you have started an Integrated course the best option is to stick with it until you qualify for an Integrated CPL (150 hours) and then add a modular IR.
In most cases if you have started an Integrated course the best option is to stick with it until you qualify for an Integrated CPL (150 hours) and then add a modular IR.
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Oh, one of my favourites!!
So, if Grommit goes to Ireland and passes all the ATPL exams with, say, PTC Waterford (first name that came to mind), or wanders up to Iceland, he or she could drop off the course, come back down to a UK RTF and use those exams for the grant of a UK CAA issued PPL?
Yet passing the PPL exams in Ireland, or Iceland (wherever) is not good enough for the issue of a UK CAA issued PPL.
The answer I hear from the CAA is that ATPL exams cover International airlaw, whereas PPL exams only cover National airlaw - which may be different from country to country.....but that's not a problem if, for some reason, you couldn't maintain an integrated course?
Somebody please explain.
So, if Grommit goes to Ireland and passes all the ATPL exams with, say, PTC Waterford (first name that came to mind), or wanders up to Iceland, he or she could drop off the course, come back down to a UK RTF and use those exams for the grant of a UK CAA issued PPL?
Yet passing the PPL exams in Ireland, or Iceland (wherever) is not good enough for the issue of a UK CAA issued PPL.
The answer I hear from the CAA is that ATPL exams cover International airlaw, whereas PPL exams only cover National airlaw - which may be different from country to country.....but that's not a problem if, for some reason, you couldn't maintain an integrated course?
Somebody please explain.
The UK CAA does not recognise JAR-FCL PPL9A)/(H) examinations completed in another JAA Member State for the purpose of issuance of a UK JAR-FCL PPL(A)/(H) as these examinations are produced “nationally” and are not compiled using the JAA Central Question Bank.
Some nations are more demanding than the UK and require examinations to be taken at a specified 'centre'. Whereas others are somewhat 'liberal'; for example, I've heard tell of people able to take (and pass) the Navigation exam in 10 minutes in one country.
I wonder who the CAA expect to produce the 'LPL'
single exam paper.....??
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Hmmm, maybe it is time for a pause and a rethink, guys.
In the USA (a little backwater which nevertheless seems to have the majority of the world's aviation activity, and probably about 90% of the world's GA) you can
- pop into your nearest school and sit the PPL written (1), and fly there and get the PPL
- pop into the same nearest school and sit the IR written (1), and fly there and get the IR
- pop into the same nearest school and sit the CPL written (1), and fly there and get the CPL
- pop into (usually) the same school and sit the ATP written (1), and fly there and get the ATP
Same school and probably the same instructor.
It's obviously a terrible system because the USA is covered in aircraft wreckage, and the approaches into LHR have to be regularly cleared of bits of N-reg 747s.
I've done the first three myself and I really worry because I have just read all the CAA Safety Sense leaflets, especially #25, and every time I fly, 100% on GPS of course, I worry that I am going to kill myself, having passed through this terrible system.
What can be done about this terrible state of affairs?
But, hey, EASA is on the right track with its current proposal, under which an ICAO (non JAA) ATP with 20,000 hours in everything imaginable including a Cessna 150, cannot fly an EASA-reg Cessna 150. Well, they will let him do it for one year. But this applies only to EU residents. If this ATP is not resident in the EU, he's OK. Obviously this will really increase safety by preventing all those dodgy foreign ATPs flying the gold-plated-maintenance EU planes, with every washer having come with an EASA-1 form (yeah, right, that's another bollox pretence nobody will talk about).
Europe is all about protectionism. Protecting domestic businesses and protecting national CAA and "professional" flying school jobs.
In the USA (a little backwater which nevertheless seems to have the majority of the world's aviation activity, and probably about 90% of the world's GA) you can
- pop into your nearest school and sit the PPL written (1), and fly there and get the PPL
- pop into the same nearest school and sit the IR written (1), and fly there and get the IR
- pop into the same nearest school and sit the CPL written (1), and fly there and get the CPL
- pop into (usually) the same school and sit the ATP written (1), and fly there and get the ATP
Same school and probably the same instructor.
It's obviously a terrible system because the USA is covered in aircraft wreckage, and the approaches into LHR have to be regularly cleared of bits of N-reg 747s.
I've done the first three myself and I really worry because I have just read all the CAA Safety Sense leaflets, especially #25, and every time I fly, 100% on GPS of course, I worry that I am going to kill myself, having passed through this terrible system.
What can be done about this terrible state of affairs?
But, hey, EASA is on the right track with its current proposal, under which an ICAO (non JAA) ATP with 20,000 hours in everything imaginable including a Cessna 150, cannot fly an EASA-reg Cessna 150. Well, they will let him do it for one year. But this applies only to EU residents. If this ATP is not resident in the EU, he's OK. Obviously this will really increase safety by preventing all those dodgy foreign ATPs flying the gold-plated-maintenance EU planes, with every washer having come with an EASA-1 form (yeah, right, that's another bollox pretence nobody will talk about).
Europe is all about protectionism. Protecting domestic businesses and protecting national CAA and "professional" flying school jobs.
I fail to see what the USA has got to do with this question. Its a simple question about the validity of European exams. We live in Europe and you have had your opportunity to voice your opinions on EASA; I trust that you have. Now were are stuck with it. Personally I like the attitude of Sarkozy, look after the French and stuff the rest, we should follow his example!
Europe is all about protectionism. Protecting domestic businesses and protecting national CAA and "professional" flying school jobs.
The CAA are the only people known to have surrendered to the French in recent years; the absurd LPL will be an utter disaster which the CAA itself will have to sort out, should it ever be forced upon us - unlike the NPPL which was a product of authority and industry synergy.
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unlike the NPPL which was a product of authority and industry synergy.
I thought the NPPL was pushed by the PPL training industry so they could have a cheaper product to stick on their price list - regardless of whether it would be of any use to anybody for actually flying somewhere (producing pilots is not the industry's job; this isn't the RAF) and the resulting NPPL uptake profile (some 2/3 are former full PPLs who cannot any longer pass the CAA Class 2 medical) seems to support this.
EASA does turn out a load of **** on occassions but I suspect the NPL will be an interesting piece of paper for the vast majority of European VFR-only pilots who never go very far and who want a simple GP medical. And the GP medical is clearly a good idea since pilot incapacitation barely features in accidents and 3rd party (ground based) losses are even more negligible. It is the IFR stuff that worries many people but that's another story...........
