Ethanol fuelled Lycoming IO-540
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: wonderland
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ethanol fuelled Lycoming IO-540
This is a general question to anyone, who may know whether the UK, or any European authority for that matter, has approved the Lycoming IO-540 engine for operation with E85 fuel.
The FAA certified it way back in 1990, just wondered if anyone is operating it in Europe ???
The FAA certified it way back in 1990, just wondered if anyone is operating it in Europe ???
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It might help if you would specify the exact engine designator, and the airframe it's attached to.
Ethanol doesn't just impact the engine block. It may also have consequences for the rest of the fuel system: tanks, hoses, carbs, pumps etc.
Ethanol doesn't just impact the engine block. It may also have consequences for the rest of the fuel system: tanks, hoses, carbs, pumps etc.
Moderator
Ethanol doesn't just impact the engine block. It may also have consequences for the rest of the fuel system: tanks, hoses, carbs, pumps etc.
I'm not saying that it does not work though, I was one of 5 pilots to fly about 400 hours over 2 years on an ethanol powered C150. It was based for six months at my home runway. This was a goverment sponsored test program. The conclusion was though the fuel worked, there would be challenges for pilots to operate such planes safely, particularly when ethanol was mixed with gasoline, and the energy content was not at all known. Mixture settings become a mystery. Imagine opening the throttle full, then leaning half way back to obtain the best power for takeoff (at near sea level).
I will watch with interest, the growth of ethanol as an aviation fuel, but I am not holding my breath for rapid progress...
Pilot DAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: wonderland
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Back Packer, I am researching information of a general nature at this point in time. If you have anything as per my original question, please feel free to add it. Why would you need to know a specific engine/airframe combination ? Either you know someone or some entity that is doing it or you don't.
The Lycoming IO-540 application, as STC approved by the FAA in March 1990, was driven by the fact that Brazilian based/registered crop spraying Pawnee aircraft wished to use that engine and E85 (or possibly E100) as a fuel in that type.
I know from changing my car to Ethanol that it is easiest to change an Injected engine than a carburated engine, Injector timings requiring to be changed etc... I am aware of the potential for a greater corrosion rate of fuel tanks and lines etc... and this I believe is addressed in the STC.
As an aside Pilot DAR, how was the ignition timing application modified on the C152 with a carbureted engine ?
As for performance, this can be modified after flight testing and an amendment to the Airplane Flight Manual. A consideration is indeed the greater rate of fuel consumption and lower power output.
Pilot DAR, Ethanol is being used and has been used in piston engine aircraft in Brazil for almost twenty years, but I agree with you that we wont see too rapid a progression
.... there are none so blind as those who do not wish to see....
The Lycoming IO-540 application, as STC approved by the FAA in March 1990, was driven by the fact that Brazilian based/registered crop spraying Pawnee aircraft wished to use that engine and E85 (or possibly E100) as a fuel in that type.
I know from changing my car to Ethanol that it is easiest to change an Injected engine than a carburated engine, Injector timings requiring to be changed etc... I am aware of the potential for a greater corrosion rate of fuel tanks and lines etc... and this I believe is addressed in the STC.
As an aside Pilot DAR, how was the ignition timing application modified on the C152 with a carbureted engine ?
As for performance, this can be modified after flight testing and an amendment to the Airplane Flight Manual. A consideration is indeed the greater rate of fuel consumption and lower power output.
Pilot DAR, Ethanol is being used and has been used in piston engine aircraft in Brazil for almost twenty years, but I agree with you that we wont see too rapid a progression
.... there are none so blind as those who do not wish to see....
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sweden, Canada, Japan
Age: 57
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
- there are none so blind as those who do not wish to see -
Anyone ever pause to consider where the ethanol comes from and what the environmental impact of that is? I realize there is no such thing as an environmentally friendly internal combustion engine, but I believe we must try to minimize the impact as much as we can and so these discussions are important.
I know there are aircraft flying in Sweden today using unleaded fuel, but I'm not aware of any use of ethanol. So far the experience with UL 91/92 has been good, it
seems. No changes in engine setup or ignition timings required. There is no noticeable difference in performance on "flying club" aircraft running the O-320/O-360 or similar, but there are problems that become apparent when the fuel is used in higher performance engines. I think this has been well documented by others and the consensus seems to be that it will be difficult to solve without the use of FADEC systems. (the fuel manufacturer is more optimistic).
I don't know if this is relevant, but there it is.
Anyone ever pause to consider where the ethanol comes from and what the environmental impact of that is? I realize there is no such thing as an environmentally friendly internal combustion engine, but I believe we must try to minimize the impact as much as we can and so these discussions are important.
I know there are aircraft flying in Sweden today using unleaded fuel, but I'm not aware of any use of ethanol. So far the experience with UL 91/92 has been good, it
seems. No changes in engine setup or ignition timings required. There is no noticeable difference in performance on "flying club" aircraft running the O-320/O-360 or similar, but there are problems that become apparent when the fuel is used in higher performance engines. I think this has been well documented by others and the consensus seems to be that it will be difficult to solve without the use of FADEC systems. (the fuel manufacturer is more optimistic).
I don't know if this is relevant, but there it is.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: wonderland
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Utfart, I for one consider where ethanol comes from, and my feedstock supply doesn't come from corn. Have you bought into the incorrect cr@p that it can only come from corn and that we would be depleting our own food supply to produce it ? I make ethanol from sugar and waste beer production yeast, and my V6 3.1 litre combustion engined car churns out about 60% LESS CO2 than if run on regular gasoline.
Ethanol may not be perfect but I make it for less than $1.50 per USG.
Ethanol is showing early potential to extend TBO times and beats Gasoline in every area other than energy density. Also, the knock effect of running without lead is removed, the natural anti-knock qualities of Ethanol negate the need to include lead.
Ethanol may not be perfect but I make it for less than $1.50 per USG.
Ethanol is showing early potential to extend TBO times and beats Gasoline in every area other than energy density. Also, the knock effect of running without lead is removed, the natural anti-knock qualities of Ethanol negate the need to include lead.
Last edited by skibeagle; 25th Feb 2009 at 17:41.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sweden, Canada, Japan
Age: 57
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, I live in Sweden, so concern about my food supply is a very old problem, but not the worry in this case . My concerns on ethanol production lie in 2 areas. 1) I'm concerned by studies that have shown the energy needed to grow crops (corn in this case) exceeds the energy that can be produced by the finished product by 29%. (David Pimental, Cornell, 2005), and 2) Large areas of CO2 absorbing forest are at risk in the third world (apologies for including Brazil in this group) due to the perceived financial benefits available.
I applaud what you are attempting and your choice of raw material. Good idea and I hope it leads somewhere for you. The only thing I can think to contribute to your original question is to advise conact with the engine manufacturers. They have been quite helpful providing advice in the change to unleaded fuel in aircraft engines here. I would be very surprised if they don't already posess all the data you could ever need. Getting the data could be another issue. Good Luck.
I applaud what you are attempting and your choice of raw material. Good idea and I hope it leads somewhere for you. The only thing I can think to contribute to your original question is to advise conact with the engine manufacturers. They have been quite helpful providing advice in the change to unleaded fuel in aircraft engines here. I would be very surprised if they don't already posess all the data you could ever need. Getting the data could be another issue. Good Luck.
