Flying schools going tits up.
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BEagle
Hmmm... I seem to remember it was like that back in the '80s before everyone jumped on the 'commercial bandwagon'.
Experienced FIs, with bags of knowledge, instructing at weekends, students sponsored by airlines - and therefore not dependent entirely on the 'self-improver' route only (as is, generally, the case today).
A bit like the housing market - if there are no first-time buyers the market suffers. As with aviation, if there were no 'self-improvers' where would the industry have been during the past 10 years?!
I hope the likes of easyJet and Ryanair appreciate just how lucky they have been to avoid the (expensive) cost of pilot training thanks to the flying schools who have provided the means by which embryo pilots could gain the requisite experience - and who are now suffering and having to face possible litigation.
If the flying schools can't operate due to the cost of employing instructors, then the aviation industry will suffer and no one will be complacent then.
AJ
PS: The job of a B737 First Officer may be routine, but I never found it 'dull' - however it can't have been all that good as I have moved on to 'better' things outside aviation. The thought of doing basically the same job day-in-day-out just never appealed. I'm pleased I 'did it', but as keen as I was on flying, not as a transport pilot for the rest of my working life!
PPL schools will merely offer the opportunity for PPL (and/or 'fATPL')-holding FIs to do some instructing. NO PAY - just refund of petrol money and perhaps the cost of lunch.
Experienced FIs, with bags of knowledge, instructing at weekends, students sponsored by airlines - and therefore not dependent entirely on the 'self-improver' route only (as is, generally, the case today).
A bit like the housing market - if there are no first-time buyers the market suffers. As with aviation, if there were no 'self-improvers' where would the industry have been during the past 10 years?!
I hope the likes of easyJet and Ryanair appreciate just how lucky they have been to avoid the (expensive) cost of pilot training thanks to the flying schools who have provided the means by which embryo pilots could gain the requisite experience - and who are now suffering and having to face possible litigation.
If the flying schools can't operate due to the cost of employing instructors, then the aviation industry will suffer and no one will be complacent then.
AJ
PS: The job of a B737 First Officer may be routine, but I never found it 'dull' - however it can't have been all that good as I have moved on to 'better' things outside aviation. The thought of doing basically the same job day-in-day-out just never appealed. I'm pleased I 'did it', but as keen as I was on flying, not as a transport pilot for the rest of my working life!
AJ - I didn't say it was necessarily a bad thing!
Personally I would welcome the return of the enthusiastic, experienced PPL/FI - and airlines having to select and pay for their own pilot trainees. If that meant the end of lo-cos ferrying drunken hen parties about, then so much the better!
There are a lot of 'fATPL' holders out there who are simply unemployable due to personal qualities and/or CRM. So they sit grumbling at flying schools whingeing about pay rates whilst delivering pretty indifferent flight instruction.
Does any other industry allow its most inexperienced people to instruct newcomers to that industry? Frankly, I find it utterly bizarre.
Personally I would welcome the return of the enthusiastic, experienced PPL/FI - and airlines having to select and pay for their own pilot trainees. If that meant the end of lo-cos ferrying drunken hen parties about, then so much the better!
There are a lot of 'fATPL' holders out there who are simply unemployable due to personal qualities and/or CRM. So they sit grumbling at flying schools whingeing about pay rates whilst delivering pretty indifferent flight instruction.
Does any other industry allow its most inexperienced people to instruct newcomers to that industry? Frankly, I find it utterly bizarre.
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There are a lot of 'fATPL' holders out there who are simply unemployable due to personal qualities and/or CRM. So they sit grumbling at flying schools whingeing about pay rates whilst delivering pretty indifferent flight instruction
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I have to agree with BEagle, whilst I was an hours building FI and I know that many do give a good service, however now I know that the best instructors are usually a lot older and more experienced.
I would however, hate to see a return to unpaid instructors and frankly with my experience of PPL's, there are not that many who would fit into the experienced and dedicated mould that is really required.
Someone doing bits and pieces is not what's needed, there needs to be a new breed of professional instructors who do it as a career. They need to be paid decently and be available more than just once a week, like most PPL FI's would be.
If someone has a 9-5 job and especially a family, then the chances of getting any more than that out of them is impossible.
The only problem is, that no-one wants to pay for it.
Until that is forced upon people, then we will have this stupid bitsa system we have today, where good training is often more a game of chance than a given.
There are great FI's out there, but there are some real numb-nuts as well and there is no way a prospective student has an real way of seeing who's who. Until it's too late...........
Most schools are so concerned about simple survival that actually doing a good job and being customer focus just goes out of the window.
I actually want to see a bit of carnage in the industry, that way we might have some opportunities for some of the decent schools.
I would however, hate to see a return to unpaid instructors and frankly with my experience of PPL's, there are not that many who would fit into the experienced and dedicated mould that is really required.
Someone doing bits and pieces is not what's needed, there needs to be a new breed of professional instructors who do it as a career. They need to be paid decently and be available more than just once a week, like most PPL FI's would be.
If someone has a 9-5 job and especially a family, then the chances of getting any more than that out of them is impossible.
The only problem is, that no-one wants to pay for it.
Until that is forced upon people, then we will have this stupid bitsa system we have today, where good training is often more a game of chance than a given.
There are great FI's out there, but there are some real numb-nuts as well and there is no way a prospective student has an real way of seeing who's who. Until it's too late...........
Most schools are so concerned about simple survival that actually doing a good job and being customer focus just goes out of the window.
I actually want to see a bit of carnage in the industry, that way we might have some opportunities for some of the decent schools.
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BEagle
I agree.
Especially the lack of experience - and the wrong attitude - of some FIs who are in it for themselves rather than the student and the greater good of general aviation.
Why is it that everything in life seems to get worse rather than better? Or is it me getting older and more cynical?!
AJ
I agree.
Especially the lack of experience - and the wrong attitude - of some FIs who are in it for themselves rather than the student and the greater good of general aviation.
Why is it that everything in life seems to get worse rather than better? Or is it me getting older and more cynical?!
AJ
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Perhaps the professionalism - or lack of it - that you bemoan about light aircraft instructors is why there are now more microlight schools than light aircraft ones (according to FTN).
Of course, to be a microlight instructor your hours after becoming an FI count for nothing - even with 3,000 hrs on a microlight C42 I could not become a CRI to check people out on a light aircraft C42!
The reverse was also true, even with a full light aircraft licence, our C42 instructor had to fly 60 hours in a C42 microlight before he could start a microlight AFI course.
Even with 3,000 hours I'd also still need 30-odd hours to get a JAR licence.
Means three things:
One - as a microlight instructor, you are doing it for the love, or for the money to make a living (or both!). There is no "golden future" beckoning! And if you enjoy your job you keep working on how to improve - because you them get even more fun out of it.
Two - as a student, you are having to pay nearly as much for your microlight lesson as in a light aircraft, because although microlights are cheaper to run, the instructors have to earn more if you want to retain them (because they have families etc to keep in food and clothes).
Three; as a microlight flying school, you have to ensure your instructors get a living income - or they will give up or leave, buy their own aircraft and set up a rival school (it is very very easy to set up a microlight school). One way to stop instructors leaving is to ensure the existing students get the best possible service, since word of mouth is the cheapest advertising.
Gosh! That raises a whole lot of points about the flying training industry!
Very best,
XA
Of course, to be a microlight instructor your hours after becoming an FI count for nothing - even with 3,000 hrs on a microlight C42 I could not become a CRI to check people out on a light aircraft C42!
The reverse was also true, even with a full light aircraft licence, our C42 instructor had to fly 60 hours in a C42 microlight before he could start a microlight AFI course.
Even with 3,000 hours I'd also still need 30-odd hours to get a JAR licence.
Means three things:
One - as a microlight instructor, you are doing it for the love, or for the money to make a living (or both!). There is no "golden future" beckoning! And if you enjoy your job you keep working on how to improve - because you them get even more fun out of it.
Two - as a student, you are having to pay nearly as much for your microlight lesson as in a light aircraft, because although microlights are cheaper to run, the instructors have to earn more if you want to retain them (because they have families etc to keep in food and clothes).
Three; as a microlight flying school, you have to ensure your instructors get a living income - or they will give up or leave, buy their own aircraft and set up a rival school (it is very very easy to set up a microlight school). One way to stop instructors leaving is to ensure the existing students get the best possible service, since word of mouth is the cheapest advertising.
Gosh! That raises a whole lot of points about the flying training industry!
Very best,
XA
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Why not form limited companies, one for the flying club and one each for every aircraft that the flying club uses. Yes there are costs involved, accountant fees and filing fees but as long as you keep little or no assests in the flying club there would be little point in the revenue chasing the club-a man of straw is not worth sueing. The added advantage in this day and age is that one accident that results in a claim by an injured party would not effect the other assets.If the revenue deem that a person is an employee and not self employed they persue the employer not the employee
