BBC: Engineers 'averted air disaster'
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BBC: Engineers 'averted air disaster'
Ok, wel done to the ground crew, but what crap reporting from the BBC ;
BBC NEWS | England | Norfolk | Engineers 'averted air disaster'
Engineers 'averted air disaster'
Two electrical engineers at Norwich Airport have been praised for averting a potential tragedy when they alerted a taxiing pilot to a safety breach.
Ian Dent and Andrew Bromley were checking runway lights on 5 January when they spotted a warning flag flapping on the light aircraft.
They contacted the control tower and the pilot was told. He removed the flag and the equipment it was an alert for.
The airport said it was "delighted by the actions of our staff".
Airspeed indication
The flag was an alert for the pitot head cover, which should have been removed before flight, enabling the pitot head to measure the speed of the aircraft.
Ian Dent said: "I spotted the flag was flapping and realised it should not be there. We called the tower and they informed the pilot.
"It's rare for things like this to happen but we are always very safe all the time."
Airport managing director Elliott Summers said: "By flying the aircraft with the cover still attached, the pilot would not receive accurate - or potentially any - airspeed indication.
"In cases where the pilot may be flying in cloud and therefore also has no visual reference, the lack of airspeed indication has resulted in the crashing of an aircraft and subsequent fatalities.
"The quick actions of the alert staff at the airport may have prevented such an event."
Non story
BBC NEWS | England | Norfolk | Engineers 'averted air disaster'
Engineers 'averted air disaster'
Two electrical engineers at Norwich Airport have been praised for averting a potential tragedy when they alerted a taxiing pilot to a safety breach.
Ian Dent and Andrew Bromley were checking runway lights on 5 January when they spotted a warning flag flapping on the light aircraft.
They contacted the control tower and the pilot was told. He removed the flag and the equipment it was an alert for.
The airport said it was "delighted by the actions of our staff".
Airspeed indication
The flag was an alert for the pitot head cover, which should have been removed before flight, enabling the pitot head to measure the speed of the aircraft.
Ian Dent said: "I spotted the flag was flapping and realised it should not be there. We called the tower and they informed the pilot.
"It's rare for things like this to happen but we are always very safe all the time."
Airport managing director Elliott Summers said: "By flying the aircraft with the cover still attached, the pilot would not receive accurate - or potentially any - airspeed indication.
"In cases where the pilot may be flying in cloud and therefore also has no visual reference, the lack of airspeed indication has resulted in the crashing of an aircraft and subsequent fatalities.
"The quick actions of the alert staff at the airport may have prevented such an event."
Non story
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Must be a slow news day out that way.
As far as I can see, it's one of the better pieces of aviation journalism; at least it wasn't called a "pilot tube" (sic).Today's news from NWI - I found a dumped briefcase today at Norwich Airport. I reported it to security and they took it away. It was just a sumped briefcase.
As Lister says, better to read that than the obverse.
Cheers
Whirls
I suppose all us Skygods on here wouldnt be too troubled by a dodgy ASI.
)
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The fact is that the pilot didn't remove a flurescent orange "remove before flight" flag.
The guys who spotted it were just ordinary electrical engineers who didn't have to say or do anything, but the fact is, unlike some of the small minded respondants who frequent these pages, they are take a great deal of professional pride in everything they do and that includes speaking up for safety, even if they think there is the remotest chance they might be wrong.
I applaud them and so should you.
I know the pilot involved very well, he is highly competent and very experienced, his mistake was just that, a mistake - which any of you could make and probably have or will do in the future.
Those of you who criticise and/or make light of the actions of the guys who spotted his error are undoubtedly the unsafest people in aviation.
The guys who spotted it were just ordinary electrical engineers who didn't have to say or do anything, but the fact is, unlike some of the small minded respondants who frequent these pages, they are take a great deal of professional pride in everything they do and that includes speaking up for safety, even if they think there is the remotest chance they might be wrong.
I applaud them and so should you.
I know the pilot involved very well, he is highly competent and very experienced, his mistake was just that, a mistake - which any of you could make and probably have or will do in the future.
Those of you who criticise and/or make light of the actions of the guys who spotted his error are undoubtedly the unsafest people in aviation.
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Goatface....
I don't think anyone here is having a go at the engineers
or the pilot. Yep, he made a mistake, it was spotted and nobody was hurt.
What is getting on everybodies t*ts is the fact that the jurno's make it out to be a big event.
I don't think anyone here is having a go at the engineers
or the pilot. Yep, he made a mistake, it was spotted and nobody was hurt.What is getting on everybodies t*ts is the fact that the jurno's make it out to be a big event.
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Not exactly national headline news but good on the engineers for acting above and beyond etc.
Reminds me of a time, as an Air Cadet of about 16, that I spent a day gliding with an RAF Volunteer Gliding Squadron. It was my turn to hold the wingtip of a glider for a winch launch. The cable was connected, the adult staff pilot indicated that his checks were complete and I noticed that his pitot cover was still on. I gestured to him and eventually had to go to the cockpit to tell him what the problem was.
After the flight he took me aside and gave me a full on boll0cking for apparently not following procedures and humiliating him in front of other staff and cadets! With the benefit of a few more years I would have told him he was a tw@t and either punched the w----r or taken the matter to his CO. I always wondered how well that d1ckhead would have flown a winch launch and approach without an ASI. If he'd just said thanks I wouldn't be dripping about it on an internet forum like a sad geek decades later.
Reminds me of a time, as an Air Cadet of about 16, that I spent a day gliding with an RAF Volunteer Gliding Squadron. It was my turn to hold the wingtip of a glider for a winch launch. The cable was connected, the adult staff pilot indicated that his checks were complete and I noticed that his pitot cover was still on. I gestured to him and eventually had to go to the cockpit to tell him what the problem was.
After the flight he took me aside and gave me a full on boll0cking for apparently not following procedures and humiliating him in front of other staff and cadets! With the benefit of a few more years I would have told him he was a tw@t and either punched the w----r or taken the matter to his CO. I always wondered how well that d1ckhead would have flown a winch launch and approach without an ASI. If he'd just said thanks I wouldn't be dripping about it on an internet forum like a sad geek decades later.
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I suppose all us Skygods on here wouldnt be too troubled by a dodgy ASI.
But whether you would be able to fly with no ASI is irrelevant - of course you wouldn't have taken off in the first place, as you might just have spotted air speed zero whilst checking the instruments during take-off.
So this is indeed a non-story.
However it remains absolutely correct to congratulate the engineers for doing the right thing.
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Fg Off Stout,
Sadly the authority gradient is still alive and well in the VGS system, and I can imagine your story being repeated today. Sad, because there are many instructors who are highly competent, motivated and in it purely for the cadets' good and not their own pseudo-RAF glory. But not all.
Tim
Sadly the authority gradient is still alive and well in the VGS system, and I can imagine your story being repeated today. Sad, because there are many instructors who are highly competent, motivated and in it purely for the cadets' good and not their own pseudo-RAF glory. But not all.
Tim
I suppose all us Skygods on here wouldnt be too troubled by a dodgy ASI
Those who might not bother with a pitot cover - and there are plenty - might one day find a nice cosy spider in there - same effect, worth practising by covering the ASI one day, don't use very sticky tape tho' you might want to uncover it - quickly ! Have fun.
Not always a disaster
I discovered a blocked pitot late in the takeoff run on a short runway when my license was still wet.
A C-172 without ASI is quite manageable.
And have done several glider circuits with covered instruments -- not on a winch.
A C-172 without ASI is quite manageable.
And have done several glider circuits with covered instruments -- not on a winch.
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Back to the subject .... BBC, well done for reporting this accurately, even though it was a non event. I would rather read about this in an accurate manner than some sensationalized drivvel which bears no relation to truth whatsoever.
Pilot of said AC - we all make mistakes (although I have not personally made this one per se) - learn from it!!!
Flying without the benefit of an ASI - yes, very possible and I have done it in IMC (thanks to a pitot heater failure above freezing level). Very disorientating when your ASI and AI are telling you two very different things, but if you are in the clag then you should have the ability to cross check and make sense of what you DO have (it took me far too long to work it out - in fact until I looked at the CBs, until that point I did nothing more in pitch as I knew I was trimmed for a speed that would not kill me). At the time I had something like 3000hrs in GA AC, of course we don't know if this guy was a 46 hour PPL, in which case I think his chances would have been proportionally less had the engineers not intervened. I believe that everyone (including VFR only pilots) should train for partial/limited pannel within the context of their licence priveleges - we train for engine failures yet not for instrument failures - why?
Runway light engineers - if you are reading this you deserve a medal - No matter how small function you play in the big scheme of things, we are all part of a big system and any one of us can potentially save the lives of anyone else, just by being vigilant and proactive. You are welcome to work on the lights at any airport that I visit!
RIX
p.s. my boss has admitted to flying a Yak40 as P1/PF, with both the pitot covers still on, on a revenue flight (many many moons ago in the dark ages of the USSR of course). He said they hardly bothered with the ASI in that AC anyway as they had an AoA indicator which was much more use.
Makes me wonder how the PNF came up with the point where he should call "rotate" ...... Then again, I believe it was very "man and boy" in them thar days! Anyway, so as not to face the b***ing they continued to destination and no one was the wiser - well he was very senior in Aeroflot so I guess it was not too hard to get the FO to keep shtum.
Pilot of said AC - we all make mistakes (although I have not personally made this one per se) - learn from it!!!
Flying without the benefit of an ASI - yes, very possible and I have done it in IMC (thanks to a pitot heater failure above freezing level). Very disorientating when your ASI and AI are telling you two very different things, but if you are in the clag then you should have the ability to cross check and make sense of what you DO have (it took me far too long to work it out - in fact until I looked at the CBs, until that point I did nothing more in pitch as I knew I was trimmed for a speed that would not kill me). At the time I had something like 3000hrs in GA AC, of course we don't know if this guy was a 46 hour PPL, in which case I think his chances would have been proportionally less had the engineers not intervened. I believe that everyone (including VFR only pilots) should train for partial/limited pannel within the context of their licence priveleges - we train for engine failures yet not for instrument failures - why?
Runway light engineers - if you are reading this you deserve a medal
- No matter how small function you play in the big scheme of things, we are all part of a big system and any one of us can potentially save the lives of anyone else, just by being vigilant and proactive. You are welcome to work on the lights at any airport that I visit!RIX
p.s. my boss has admitted to flying a Yak40 as P1/PF, with both the pitot covers still on, on a revenue flight (many many moons ago in the dark ages of the USSR of course). He said they hardly bothered with the ASI in that AC anyway as they had an AoA indicator which was much more use.
Makes me wonder how the PNF came up with the point where he should call "rotate" ...... Then again, I believe it was very "man and boy" in them thar days! Anyway, so as not to face the b***ing they continued to destination and no one was the wiser - well he was very senior in Aeroflot so I guess it was not too hard to get the FO to keep shtum.
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Norwich Airport must be a really dangerous place by now; they have been confiscating general aviation pilots' toothpaste for a number of years and they must have mountains of the stuff, and eventually corrosion will work through the tubes and the stuff will start oozing out all over the taxiways.
I wonder if they have a proper full time position, with appropriate accountability to management, whose task is to avert this disaster?
I wonder if they have a proper full time position, with appropriate accountability to management, whose task is to avert this disaster?
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Never been quoted so many times in one short thread - feeling quite chuffed. 
So he was no better off than if he had left the flag in place then. 
They contacted the control tower and the pilot was told. He removed the flag and the equipment it was an alert for.
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So he was no better off than if he had left the flag in place then. 
niknak
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I have appointed myself as the personal agent for Andy & Yogi (the engineers involved), they are now available for public speaking, opening fetes and frightening naughty children.
