The Good Flying Club Guide
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Good Flying Club Guide
Hi all,
In the interests of doing a better job (CFI) from a customer service perspective, does anyone have any opinions or suggestions on what makes a good club/training school?
I've a fairly good idea from my own experiences on what not to do, but I'd be keen to get some examples of good practice, or (within reason!) general training & hire preferences.
Many thanks
SP6
In the interests of doing a better job (CFI) from a customer service perspective, does anyone have any opinions or suggestions on what makes a good club/training school?
I've a fairly good idea from my own experiences on what not to do, but I'd be keen to get some examples of good practice, or (within reason!) general training & hire preferences.
Many thanks
SP6
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 2,547
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, I've only left one club. What drove me away, was constantly turning up to go flying only to find out the aircraft was grounded for some reason, or someone else had flown it away and got stuck there with weather.
I wouldn't have had a problem with either issue, if I'd simply got a phone call advising of this, to save me the bother of planning my day around flying (and that of some excited friend coming for their first flight).
So, if there's a problem, just call your customer as soon as you know, and let them in on the picture.
I know it's obvious, but if it was done at this school, I'd still be paying them my money.
dp
I wouldn't have had a problem with either issue, if I'd simply got a phone call advising of this, to save me the bother of planning my day around flying (and that of some excited friend coming for their first flight).
So, if there's a problem, just call your customer as soon as you know, and let them in on the picture.
I know it's obvious, but if it was done at this school, I'd still be paying them my money.
dp
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: UK
Age: 35
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If the club put on evenings with different people coming to do talks from different backrounds, demonstrations of different things... maybe an aviation film night.
Basically just encourage the members to come together as a club socially as well as to fly.
Basically just encourage the members to come together as a club socially as well as to fly.
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: LONDON
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Poss - at my club (White Waltham) they do make an enormous effort to put on great evenings, both with aviation 'talks' on many different subjects as well as regular socials (curry night for example is very popular!).
However, the one event that particularly stands out is the 'Friday Afternoon Club' which is promoted (and attended by) the CFI. The broad plan is that new PPLs as well as more advanced club members plan a fly-out on (you guessed) Friday afternoons followed by drinks back at the bar (sometimes with a night away). It is really good fun and there is always lots to be learnt (I enjoy it immensely and I've logged over 600 hours so it's not just for newbies - everyone joins in!).
The trick is to find yourself a CFI who has an innate sense of fun and adventure who can look beyond basic training and ensure that sense of adventure just keeps going - it's not just about ratings and box ticking . . . it's about enjoying yourselves
But you can't have our CFI . . . . !!
Drambuster
However, the one event that particularly stands out is the 'Friday Afternoon Club' which is promoted (and attended by) the CFI. The broad plan is that new PPLs as well as more advanced club members plan a fly-out on (you guessed) Friday afternoons followed by drinks back at the bar (sometimes with a night away). It is really good fun and there is always lots to be learnt (I enjoy it immensely and I've logged over 600 hours so it's not just for newbies - everyone joins in!).
The trick is to find yourself a CFI who has an innate sense of fun and adventure who can look beyond basic training and ensure that sense of adventure just keeps going - it's not just about ratings and box ticking . . . it's about enjoying yourselves
But you can't have our CFI . . . . !!
Drambuster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 18nm NE grice 28ft up
Posts: 1,129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Drambusters club has it right. It's like a successful pub. It needs a genial host who has a love of organising.
Needless to say the basics, which have been covered, must be there.
Oh yes! Instructors who enjoy their job.
DO.
Needless to say the basics, which have been covered, must be there.
Oh yes! Instructors who enjoy their job.
DO.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks guys - some good ideas on the social side. I like the aviation film night and the Friday Afternoon club.
Any do's or don'ts with regard to operations (noted about phoning customers if acft tech) and methods of payment?
Any do's or don'ts with regard to operations (noted about phoning customers if acft tech) and methods of payment?
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,929
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Any do's or don'ts with regard to operations (noted about phoning customers if acft tech) and methods of payment?
I haven't used it in a while (not really a member of any club any more - anyway, would I want to be in a club that wanted me as a member ??
), but an outfit I used to be with had it and it works a treat. I think - but check - that it can also send sms notifications for a/c gone tech or other issues. Great tool!Payment - DD monthly. AFAIK (but again - check), the above mentioned tool can generate a breakdown of times flown by member and a/c, together with the cost. Used to get an email once a month notifying me how much would be debited. Totally hassle-free.
There are probably other packages out there, I just happen to know this one - and know it works well!
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Warrington
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a new starter, a warm welcome once you walk through the door... too many places are like Old Men's clubs: noone approaches you, if you've never been there before you have no idea where to go or who to speak too.
A bar is always good
A bar is always good
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: UK
Age: 35
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Poss - at my club (White Waltham) they do make an enormous effort to put on great evenings, both with aviation 'talks' on many different subjects as well as regular socials (curry night for example is very popular!).
If I ever move near White Waltham I would definitely want to join your club, if you wouldn't mind PM'ing me the name that would be great.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another thing to maybe think about is a clear separation between the commercial activities of the club/school/CFI/whatever, and the not-for-profit activities.
Even in a non-for-profit club, the CFI (and maybe other instructors as well) do this for a living and to be honest, you can't fault them for that. So if you arrange one-on-one instruction, either on the ground or in the air, they're being paid for that. Simple. And if they're propping up the bar and you ask them a simple question, they don't expect payment, other than maybe another beer if the answer is mouth-drying long. But what about the activities in between? If the CFI organizes one of those Friday-afternoon flyouts and he flies one leg as a passenger in the RHS and dispenses some good advice from there?
Another example: we have occasions where we have instructors with us as safety pilots even though we as PPLs execute the flight as PIC. Spot landing practice/competitions for instance. In this particular case, my club makes clear that the entry fee into the activity also covers instructor payment for the day. That makes it clear what to expect.
Even in a non-for-profit club, the CFI (and maybe other instructors as well) do this for a living and to be honest, you can't fault them for that. So if you arrange one-on-one instruction, either on the ground or in the air, they're being paid for that. Simple. And if they're propping up the bar and you ask them a simple question, they don't expect payment, other than maybe another beer if the answer is mouth-drying long. But what about the activities in between? If the CFI organizes one of those Friday-afternoon flyouts and he flies one leg as a passenger in the RHS and dispenses some good advice from there?
Another example: we have occasions where we have instructors with us as safety pilots even though we as PPLs execute the flight as PIC. Spot landing practice/competitions for instance. In this particular case, my club makes clear that the entry fee into the activity also covers instructor payment for the day. That makes it clear what to expect.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sydney
Age: 68
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flying Clubs
Hi. I'm the secretary of a flying club in Australia. We are doing quite well and have been in operation for around for over 30 years. We own 9 aircraft and have about 15 more online from members.
We have an aviation night about every 6 months, we have college (the flying school side of things) presentations every 6 months, a Christmas party with a guest speaker and anything else we care to organise. We have last-light drinks on the last Sunday of every month.
We have about 30 instructors on the books most of whom are part-time.
We have regular competitions which involve spot landings, instrument climbs, no instrument circuits (with a spot landing), streamer cutting etc.
We are currently organising a large fly-away to the northern tip of Australia over a two week period later this year. Before then will be a couple of weekend trips to some local (by light plane anyway) wineries.
We've recently moved to a new clubhouse on the airport. This along with the hard work of the board , the clubs general manager and the rest of the staff, has seen a 50% increase in club membership numbers over the last 12 months alone.
Whilst the GM, CFI and a couple of others are permanent staff and do a lot of the hard work, the board of directors also has a big hand in organising things.
So what makes a good flying club? The members. They are the ones who get the things done. If the members like the idea, they'll back it.
We have an aviation night about every 6 months, we have college (the flying school side of things) presentations every 6 months, a Christmas party with a guest speaker and anything else we care to organise. We have last-light drinks on the last Sunday of every month.
We have about 30 instructors on the books most of whom are part-time.
We have regular competitions which involve spot landings, instrument climbs, no instrument circuits (with a spot landing), streamer cutting etc.
We are currently organising a large fly-away to the northern tip of Australia over a two week period later this year. Before then will be a couple of weekend trips to some local (by light plane anyway) wineries.
We've recently moved to a new clubhouse on the airport. This along with the hard work of the board , the clubs general manager and the rest of the staff, has seen a 50% increase in club membership numbers over the last 12 months alone.
Whilst the GM, CFI and a couple of others are permanent staff and do a lot of the hard work, the board of directors also has a big hand in organising things.
So what makes a good flying club? The members. They are the ones who get the things done. If the members like the idea, they'll back it.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have noted a growing tendency amongst the larger training organisations, especially those oriented towards commercial training, to adopt a rather pompous self important attitude among the staff who have over inflated ideas of their importance and seem intent to convey the seriousness of flying to the detriment of the fun element. Obviously safety is paramount but I personally find a more relaxed and informal atmosphere preferable to instructors who wander around with epaulettes trying their damndest to catch out students or recurrent training flights on minor matters of pedantry.
I am long out of being a student having got my licence 26 years ago, and these days only have occasional biennial flight contact with instructors, but it seems to me that over the years the informal fun element has disappeared in pursuit of ego driven overinflated ideas of self importance encouraged by the excuse of health and safety and a fear ( perhaps justified) of authority and regulation.
I am long out of being a student having got my licence 26 years ago, and these days only have occasional biennial flight contact with instructors, but it seems to me that over the years the informal fun element has disappeared in pursuit of ego driven overinflated ideas of self importance encouraged by the excuse of health and safety and a fear ( perhaps justified) of authority and regulation.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: UK
Age: 35
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A good instructor is one that can adapt his/her teaching methods to meet the needs of a student. Arrogance has no place in a cockpit, be it a PA38/C172 or a B737 etc.. generally it is the sign of someone that thinks they know it all when really we are all students of aviation, whether we be a seasoned airline pilot with many thousands of hours or someone that has been flying GA for many years.
I too prefer a more informal approach to teaching PPL students, epaulettes on instructors seems a bit over the top for my liking.
I too prefer a more informal approach to teaching PPL students, epaulettes on instructors seems a bit over the top for my liking.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sydney
Age: 46
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another vote for the online booking system. This was probably the most frustrating aspect of getting my ppl last year. Standing around trying to get access to the single 'ring binder folder' with booking pages for the next 3 months, only to find that those pesky full time students have grabbed all the double slots on weekends for the next month and a half. Then trying to find time with a different instrcutor to try and meet your flying goals.
Also in addition to an online booking system, ideally it would have been nice if the instructor you are assigned reserves space for you in the calendar then gives you a call to see if you would like to take up the reservation before making it available to others. This would definitely increase the 'valued customer / member of a club' factor. And obviously much easier to do with an online system that doesn't involve color coded pens, white out, small stickers, physical proximity to 'the sheet'.
Also in addition to an online booking system, ideally it would have been nice if the instructor you are assigned reserves space for you in the calendar then gives you a call to see if you would like to take up the reservation before making it available to others. This would definitely increase the 'valued customer / member of a club' factor. And obviously much easier to do with an online system that doesn't involve color coded pens, white out, small stickers, physical proximity to 'the sheet'.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The "competition" does gold bars and epaulettes!
We are going to try for a relaxed friendly atmosphere, but a good and consistent standard of tuition. Ultimately, we are part of a commercial FTO too, and some students will progress through to CPL/IR/Citation TR and I have to make sure we give them as good a start as possible.
I've managed to persuade management to let me use two hour slots for lessons and we will be holding monthly instructor standardisation meetings. What I can't really affect, is the club side, which is run by an autonomous comittee.
Thanks for the replies!
We are going to try for a relaxed friendly atmosphere, but a good and consistent standard of tuition. Ultimately, we are part of a commercial FTO too, and some students will progress through to CPL/IR/Citation TR and I have to make sure we give them as good a start as possible.
I've managed to persuade management to let me use two hour slots for lessons and we will be holding monthly instructor standardisation meetings. What I can't really affect, is the club side, which is run by an autonomous comittee.
Thanks for the replies!
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 32°55'22"S 151°46'56"E
Age: 39
Posts: 594
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
A few nice additions, using the internet would be: a regular e-mail newsletter, including information such as current prices of rental, fuel, landing, hangarage and also events and information which would affect flying. E-mails reminding expiry of medical, license etc.
Also would be good to have access online to the aircraft POH (not sure if thats copyright though), online booking facility, list of aerodromes which have reciprocal landing agreements, Flying Order Manual, prices, opening hours, events etc.
Also would be good to have access online to the aircraft POH (not sure if thats copyright though), online booking facility, list of aerodromes which have reciprocal landing agreements, Flying Order Manual, prices, opening hours, events etc.
