VFR to Northern Italy
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VFR to Northern Italy
I'm thinking about flying from the UK to Northern Italy, with a friend of mine.
I am thinking about Cremona Migliaro (LILR) or Parma (G.Verdi)...
Has anyone got any experience of using these airports or others in the South of Milan area with in something like a PA28/C182...
Cheers
Jon
I am thinking about Cremona Migliaro (LILR) or Parma (G.Verdi)...
Has anyone got any experience of using these airports or others in the South of Milan area with in something like a PA28/C182...
Cheers
Jon
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Hello!
The availability of AVGAS is a big problem in Italy, especially at international airports! Distrust everything you read in Jeppesen/Bottlang and check in advance by fax/phone/email. Last time I was in Parma with a piston aircraft they had no fuel for us.
Or consider refuelling in Switzerland (e.g. Samedan or Locarno depending on the route you fly) if the endurance of your aeroplane permits. That should save a lot of money too.
Greetings,
Max
The availability of AVGAS is a big problem in Italy, especially at international airports! Distrust everything you read in Jeppesen/Bottlang and check in advance by fax/phone/email. Last time I was in Parma with a piston aircraft they had no fuel for us.
Or consider refuelling in Switzerland (e.g. Samedan or Locarno depending on the route you fly) if the endurance of your aeroplane permits. That should save a lot of money too.
Greetings,
Max
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italianjon, do you speak Italian? If so, you will find the comments about availability of Avgas, while not entirely inaccurate IME, will not be anything unsurmountable.
Personally, I have not had a problem entering controlled airspace in Italy and getting an excellent service, but lots of other people (on and off Pprune) report otherwise. Again, once there, local knowledge is your best tool.
Personally, I have not had a problem entering controlled airspace in Italy and getting an excellent service, but lots of other people (on and off Pprune) report otherwise. Again, once there, local knowledge is your best tool.
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Cheers for the comments guys. I do speak Italian, in as far as good enough... I wouldn't describe myself fluent, but definately cabable enough to speak on the phone to arrange AVGAS. Plus endless trips to Italy to see the ancestors gives more than a sufficient insight to the 'cultural differences' to the UK.
The fuel etc, I can sort out nearer the time, what I was wondering was the airstrips themselves. They are the best airfields in terms of where my family come from, so would be the best to arrive into.
So, I am wondering about how the cutoms and Immigration work at these airfields, is it like the UK where you can arrange with the local Police unit. I know Parma would have it on sight, so that is aimed more at Cremona. What are the fees like at these aerodromes, parking etc...
Also, does anyone know, if say you stop in France for fuel, and clear customs there, do you need to do that again in Italy, with it being all part of the Schengen Treaty?
The fuel etc, I can sort out nearer the time, what I was wondering was the airstrips themselves. They are the best airfields in terms of where my family come from, so would be the best to arrive into.
So, I am wondering about how the cutoms and Immigration work at these airfields, is it like the UK where you can arrange with the local Police unit. I know Parma would have it on sight, so that is aimed more at Cremona. What are the fees like at these aerodromes, parking etc...
Also, does anyone know, if say you stop in France for fuel, and clear customs there, do you need to do that again in Italy, with it being all part of the Schengen Treaty?
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AFAIK Italy does respect Schengen for aircraft (unlike Greece) so if you stop in France first you should be able to fly to anywhere in Italy.
My limited experience of Italy, both VFR and IFR, is that when it's good it is wonderful and the rest of the time it is horrid. My most stressful flying experiences ever were in Italy, with the best one being at Treviso where Venice radar sent me there (on a diversion from Padova who refused a landing from the final approach because they could not find my PPR faxes, or something like that) saying Treviso has avgas, Treviso tower confirmed avgas availability while I was still in the air, and only after landing and parking (30 Euro?) it turned out that avgas is available only to aeroclub members (a common situation in Italy, apparently, unless certain channels are "lubricated"). Fortunately I still had enough fuel to fly across the Alps to Germany.
As in much of southern Europe, Italy is a place where the individual contact is "everything" so a phone call, with a contact made with a named individual, is likely to work wonders. And you really want to be able to speak Italian for this - even at international airports. You can get one person who is wonderful and on another occassion you may get somebody who takes a different view.
I would never again land in Italy again unless I had a positive confirmation that it is OK. And with such a confirmation in hand, if I was refused again, I would declare a mayday and land and sort it out afterwards.
My limited experience of Italy, both VFR and IFR, is that when it's good it is wonderful and the rest of the time it is horrid. My most stressful flying experiences ever were in Italy, with the best one being at Treviso where Venice radar sent me there (on a diversion from Padova who refused a landing from the final approach because they could not find my PPR faxes, or something like that) saying Treviso has avgas, Treviso tower confirmed avgas availability while I was still in the air, and only after landing and parking (30 Euro?) it turned out that avgas is available only to aeroclub members (a common situation in Italy, apparently, unless certain channels are "lubricated"). Fortunately I still had enough fuel to fly across the Alps to Germany.
As in much of southern Europe, Italy is a place where the individual contact is "everything" so a phone call, with a contact made with a named individual, is likely to work wonders. And you really want to be able to speak Italian for this - even at international airports. You can get one person who is wonderful and on another occassion you may get somebody who takes a different view.
I would never again land in Italy again unless I had a positive confirmation that it is OK. And with such a confirmation in hand, if I was refused again, I would declare a mayday and land and sort it out afterwards.
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Flew in to Milan Bergamo a few years ago in an R44 (went via South of France to avoid flying over Alps in winter). Absolutely excellent GA agent there and very good service throughout (though, after France, the thoroughness Italian ATC is a bit of a shock - but it was all good and we felt very cared for).
Don't remember anything about costs, but am sure we must have refueled. Do remember pleasure of being taken straight through security past all the Ryanair passengers huddled in a demoralised queue. Also, the pleasure of lifting at 7:00am cleared to enter the runway at the opposite end to a 737 (I was confident we could get out of the way if he moved, not so sure how happy he felt) and departing to the North heading for Sondrio - absolutely beautiful.
Don't remember anything about costs, but am sure we must have refueled. Do remember pleasure of being taken straight through security past all the Ryanair passengers huddled in a demoralised queue. Also, the pleasure of lifting at 7:00am cleared to enter the runway at the opposite end to a 737 (I was confident we could get out of the way if he moved, not so sure how happy he felt) and departing to the North heading for Sondrio - absolutely beautiful.
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I'm based just south of Rome so not very helpful.
Try contacting the following Italian forums:
VFR Flight - il forum di chi vola per divertimento - Index and A.O.P.A. Italia - Aircraft Owners and Pilot Association
Local based pilots will be able to supply info. If in diffuculty send me a pm and I'll get hold of somebody from required airports with updated info.
If you stop in France for customs, none are required in Italy.
Try contacting the following Italian forums:
VFR Flight - il forum di chi vola per divertimento - Index and A.O.P.A. Italia - Aircraft Owners and Pilot Association
Local based pilots will be able to supply info. If in diffuculty send me a pm and I'll get hold of somebody from required airports with updated info.
If you stop in France for customs, none are required in Italy.
