Batteries and icing
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Batteries and icing
Stapleford told me they had no Cessna 152s available today as "all the batteries are flat due to the icing problem".
I found this a bit strange as they have a large fleet. Does icing cause batteries to go flat?
I found this a bit strange as they have a large fleet. Does icing cause batteries to go flat?
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Not directly. In fact, cold batteries are supposed to keep their charge better than hot ones. But that's only when you don't use them.
When you use them, the chemical reaction, which releases the electrons in the battery, goes slower so less current is available for the starter motor. In addition to this, the oil in the engine is thicker when cold, so it's harder to turn the engine over. And fuel evaporates slower which, combined with less than perfect starting technique, causes more difficult starts. To the point that people drain the battery easier.
So yes, you'll find more flat batteries all over the country when cold. Just this morning I had to get external power to start - battery didn't have enough juice left to pull the engine through its first compression.
[Cue discussion about correct priming and starting techniques]
When you use them, the chemical reaction, which releases the electrons in the battery, goes slower so less current is available for the starter motor. In addition to this, the oil in the engine is thicker when cold, so it's harder to turn the engine over. And fuel evaporates slower which, combined with less than perfect starting technique, causes more difficult starts. To the point that people drain the battery easier.
So yes, you'll find more flat batteries all over the country when cold. Just this morning I had to get external power to start - battery didn't have enough juice left to pull the engine through its first compression.
[Cue discussion about correct priming and starting techniques]
It took nearly an hour to get the old 0-200 going this morning so there was nothing wrong with the battery. After normal priming (accelerator pump), the engine would fire and run for about 5 seconds, apparently on all four. There didn't seem to be any way we could keep it going any longer with extra priming.
Once it did start and run we realised that we had carb icing as the engine would not run below about 1100 rpm. It seemed as if we were getting carb icing even before the engine fired. It took about 15 minutes with intermittent carb heat to get it to run normally. After that, a nice problem free trip to Sandown and back.
I think that, next time, I will preheat the carburettor rather than the mags.
Once it did start and run we realised that we had carb icing as the engine would not run below about 1100 rpm. It seemed as if we were getting carb icing even before the engine fired. It took about 15 minutes with intermittent carb heat to get it to run normally. After that, a nice problem free trip to Sandown and back.
I think that, next time, I will preheat the carburettor rather than the mags.
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Cold start Cessna
Leave primer out and push in as engine is firing and often this is all that is required to get some momentum going, also pump throttle if necessary.
Some still hand swing before flattening the battery and/or pull the prop through before trying to start at all.
Care with flooding potential and fire, if fire keep cranking if possible and have extinguisher ready!!!!!!!!!
In short know your aircraft if possible, take advice and demo in cold wx...
Edit: Could fit heavier duty battery to prevent most winter starting problems.
Some still hand swing before flattening the battery and/or pull the prop through before trying to start at all.
Care with flooding potential and fire, if fire keep cranking if possible and have extinguisher ready!!!!!!!!!
In short know your aircraft if possible, take advice and demo in cold wx...
Edit: Could fit heavier duty battery to prevent most winter starting problems.
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It took nearly an hour to get the old 0-200 going this morning so there was nothing wrong with the battery. After normal priming (accelerator pump), the engine would fire and run for about 5 seconds, apparently on all four. There didn't seem to be any way we could keep it going any longer with extra priming.
Once it did start and run we realised that we had carb icing as the engine would not run below about 1100 rpm. It seemed as if we were getting carb icing even before the engine fired. It took about 15 minutes with intermittent carb heat to get it to run normally. After that, a nice problem free trip to Sandown and back.
I think that, next time, I will preheat the carburettor rather than the mags.
Once it did start and run we realised that we had carb icing as the engine would not run below about 1100 rpm. It seemed as if we were getting carb icing even before the engine fired. It took about 15 minutes with intermittent carb heat to get it to run normally. After that, a nice problem free trip to Sandown and back.
I think that, next time, I will preheat the carburettor rather than the mags.
I reckon it was simply that the carb was so cold there was b*gg*r all evaporation for the fuel and it needed time to warm up before she deigned to fire.
In the end it was a grand day out to Bembridge - even with frost on the wings.
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In the end it was a grand day out to Bembridge - even with frost on the wings.
Steady on lads. Engine starting problems then an open water transit to Sandown/Bembridge - with frost on the wings?????!!!!!
Remind me not to go flying with you lot!
Steady on lads. Engine starting problems then an open water transit to Sandown/Bembridge - with frost on the wings?????!!!!!
Remind me not to go flying with you lot!
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Remind me not to go flying with you lot!
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I doubt very much that robin was daft enough to go flying with frost on the wings.
A few lines on a website that could mean anything, don't make someone a fool or a bad pilot.
Get a bit of a grip please and don't go down the idiotic route of hanging and drawing someone due to comments on here about a situation you weren't part of and have absolutely no knowledge of.
A few lines on a website that could mean anything, don't make someone a fool or a bad pilot.
Get a bit of a grip please and don't go down the idiotic route of hanging and drawing someone due to comments on here about a situation you weren't part of and have absolutely no knowledge of.
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Sounds like crap customer service, lousy maintenace or a lame half-arsed excuse to me. Must be a bit frustrating. If you appreciate that bad wx is bad for business then surely when it is flyable, flying schools/clubs should try their best to deliver the goods/service.
Clear blue skies and half decent vis should be taken advantage of surely. It makes business sense to sort out deicing facilities and make preparations for cold wx problems.
Clear blue skies and half decent vis should be taken advantage of surely. It makes business sense to sort out deicing facilities and make preparations for cold wx problems.
The C85 in our C140 is cold blooded and prone to carb ice. I've taken to leaving the carb heat on during taxi when conditions warrant, and I don't push the carb heat in until I've got the throttle all the way in on the takeoff roll. We do have the luxury of a heated hangar.
-- IFMU
-- IFMU
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Today I found out what it's all about!
I had an Cessna 152 booked for 10:30. The aircraft started with no problems at all. I used car de-icer to clear the windscreen and was happily filling up with fuel (one has to do this a Stapleford as there are no fuel dipsticks in the aircraft) when I asked an instructor if it was ok to fly. The reply was negative as there was frost on the wings and he suggested I speak to the "hanger guys".
What happens is that the planes are de-iced by rolling them into a hangar for 10 minutes thus saving the "great expense" of spraying. It works quite well except that it was poorly organised and everyone was looking out for themselves and no one else.
Although the "hanger guys" knew that another plane as well as my own was waiting for the "service" they all suddenly disappeared around lunch time. A PA-28 crew decided to do an "A" check in front of the hangar - blocking access. When I pointed out that there were planes waiting to be de-iced I was ignored.
Scouting around I found a young man washing a car and asked for help. He and I opened the hangar doors and pushed both aircraft inside.
After about 5 minutes both planes were free of ice but the crew of the other larger aircraft had gone off to the cafe for lunch. I offered an incensed examiner (who was waiting for an aircraft trapped at the back of the hangar so that a student could do her skills test) to search them out and we managed to persuade the pilot to come and move the aircraft.
I finally got to taxi out more than three hours after arriving at Stapleford. Just enough time for a two hour cross-country before sunset.
Does anyone know of a do-it-yourself de-icing kit?
I had an Cessna 152 booked for 10:30. The aircraft started with no problems at all. I used car de-icer to clear the windscreen and was happily filling up with fuel (one has to do this a Stapleford as there are no fuel dipsticks in the aircraft) when I asked an instructor if it was ok to fly. The reply was negative as there was frost on the wings and he suggested I speak to the "hanger guys".
What happens is that the planes are de-iced by rolling them into a hangar for 10 minutes thus saving the "great expense" of spraying. It works quite well except that it was poorly organised and everyone was looking out for themselves and no one else.
Although the "hanger guys" knew that another plane as well as my own was waiting for the "service" they all suddenly disappeared around lunch time. A PA-28 crew decided to do an "A" check in front of the hangar - blocking access. When I pointed out that there were planes waiting to be de-iced I was ignored.
Scouting around I found a young man washing a car and asked for help. He and I opened the hangar doors and pushed both aircraft inside.
After about 5 minutes both planes were free of ice but the crew of the other larger aircraft had gone off to the cafe for lunch. I offered an incensed examiner (who was waiting for an aircraft trapped at the back of the hangar so that a student could do her skills test) to search them out and we managed to persuade the pilot to come and move the aircraft.
I finally got to taxi out more than three hours after arriving at Stapleford. Just enough time for a two hour cross-country before sunset.
Does anyone know of a do-it-yourself de-icing kit?
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Wow. That is customer service of the best kind..............And people wonder why this industry is on its knees.
If I'd been that examiner, someone in the club would have had a foot up their a*se. Poor, very poor.
If I'd been that examiner, someone in the club would have had a foot up their a*se. Poor, very poor.