Sherburn-In-Elmet - Advice please
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: N/A
Age: 34
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sherburn-In-Elmet - Advice please
Hi guys,
To date I have been flying out of LBA with Multiflight but due to financial reasons I have joined Sherburn Aero Club as I have my PPL.
However, I have never flown out of a small airfield like this and not use to an A/G radio.
I have a checkout on Tuesday in a PA28 Warrior but does anyone (preferably who flies from Sherburn) have any advice for me or things to look out for at such an airfield.
Thanks in advance.
To date I have been flying out of LBA with Multiflight but due to financial reasons I have joined Sherburn Aero Club as I have my PPL.
However, I have never flown out of a small airfield like this and not use to an A/G radio.
I have a checkout on Tuesday in a PA28 Warrior but does anyone (preferably who flies from Sherburn) have any advice for me or things to look out for at such an airfield.
Thanks in advance.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canterbury
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't operate out of SiE; the best thing to do would be to go in and have a chat with an instructor to become familiarised with the procedures specific to the airfield - they won't bite
The main difference you will notice between an airfield with full ATC like Leeds, compared to Air Ground is the much reduced level of procedural RT. At the A/G airfield I fly from, we only request the airfield information and advise whether it's a local flight/circuits, and POB. There's no need to request engine starts, permission to taxi etc. Similairly, once the power checks are done, you advise ready for departure, and you are left to use your own discretion as to when to line up, take off etc. In fact subject to the principles of sound airmanship, and any club flying order book, there is lots more freedom (and you could argue therefore, more onus on the pilot). Similairly there are no clearances required for takeoff, landing etc etc.
A busy A/G airfield can feel a bit more 'manic', because the tower cannot give instructions to aircraft, therefore it's not always easy to anticipate what the other aircraft might be doing next, or how best to integrate your aircraft with others in the circuit in a safe and expeditious manner. If in doubt though, the most important thing to do is to listen out, look out AND ensure you communicate clearly what your intentions are. (But don't assume that just because the other pilot has announced he is turning right, that he will actually do so - he might mean 'the other right'). Bottom line - be prepared for the unexpected. I have even experienced other aircraft flying opposite direction, downwind at cct height (and yes I was going the correct way ).
Once you have acclimatised to the less formal nature of an A/G environment, you will really enjoy the difference. Just make sure that you're listening & lookout are front of mind at all times! (on the ground or in the air!).
Cheers
GLUSH
The main difference you will notice between an airfield with full ATC like Leeds, compared to Air Ground is the much reduced level of procedural RT. At the A/G airfield I fly from, we only request the airfield information and advise whether it's a local flight/circuits, and POB. There's no need to request engine starts, permission to taxi etc. Similairly, once the power checks are done, you advise ready for departure, and you are left to use your own discretion as to when to line up, take off etc. In fact subject to the principles of sound airmanship, and any club flying order book, there is lots more freedom (and you could argue therefore, more onus on the pilot). Similairly there are no clearances required for takeoff, landing etc etc.
A busy A/G airfield can feel a bit more 'manic', because the tower cannot give instructions to aircraft, therefore it's not always easy to anticipate what the other aircraft might be doing next, or how best to integrate your aircraft with others in the circuit in a safe and expeditious manner. If in doubt though, the most important thing to do is to listen out, look out AND ensure you communicate clearly what your intentions are. (But don't assume that just because the other pilot has announced he is turning right, that he will actually do so - he might mean 'the other right'). Bottom line - be prepared for the unexpected. I have even experienced other aircraft flying opposite direction, downwind at cct height (and yes I was going the correct way
).Once you have acclimatised to the less formal nature of an A/G environment, you will really enjoy the difference. Just make sure that you're listening & lookout are front of mind at all times! (on the ground or in the air!).
Cheers
GLUSH
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Gt. Yarmouth, Norfolk
Age: 68
Posts: 799
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is not the sea change you appear to think it is. Whether under full ATC in an ATZ or with an airfield which has only an A/G radio you still have responsibility for separation. Having a full aerodrome control tower never removed that responsibility, even if it felt as though it did (unless you were IFR in controlled airspace). This basic fact may be somewhat hidden from you because you have flown in a controlled environment. Being in a more basic environment will if anything make you a better pilot because you have to interpret the limited information available, pay extra regard to what is going on around you and fly in accordance with the Rules of the Air.
Glush is right - you will enjoy the difference. A/G is the norm and full ATC the exception.
Glush is right - you will enjoy the difference. A/G is the norm and full ATC the exception.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: England
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Please be aware also that sherburn is sitiuated within the church fenton MATZ so you'll need to talk to them both before entering and leaving the circuit at sherburn during their hours of operation. All info is in the flight guide and it's a a simple operation. Sherburn is a very nice little airfield; happy landings 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: bradford
Age: 57
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's a very simple procedure joining and leaving the MATZ. Once you are familiar it is no big deal really. Talk to anyone at the desk or bar, they will be happy to advise.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: leeds
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flying at Sherburn
Spot on Glush! good advice, i am a member at Sherburn and don't need to add much more. Just be accurate with your positioning ie, be where you say you are! keep listening, and keep a good lookout If you want HR2oo, pm me tonight and i can advise, cheers
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HR200,
I have recently done what you are planning to do. Multiflight is a great place but the fact that when you take the basic hire price then add on the insurance excess waiver and landing fees it is nearly 40 pounds an hour cheaper to hire a PA28 from Sherburn.
If you are competent in a PA28 and are used to keeping a good look out then the check out will be a very very enjoyable process for you.
You will also love the better availability of aircraft during the week at Sherburn (ring up in the morning and book as opposed to days/weeks in advance)
The only thing that drives me insane about Sherburn is that it is closed on a Monday, hence I am on PPRUNE today and not in a plane.
I have recently done what you are planning to do. Multiflight is a great place but the fact that when you take the basic hire price then add on the insurance excess waiver and landing fees it is nearly 40 pounds an hour cheaper to hire a PA28 from Sherburn.
If you are competent in a PA28 and are used to keeping a good look out then the check out will be a very very enjoyable process for you.
You will also love the better availability of aircraft during the week at Sherburn (ring up in the morning and book as opposed to days/weeks in advance)
The only thing that drives me insane about Sherburn is that it is closed on a Monday, hence I am on PPRUNE today and not in a plane.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: N/A
Age: 34
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks everyone for your replies. I guess im concerned over nothing.
The problem with being trained at LBA I have been lucky with the long runway.
I have always been a cautious pilot and always keeping a good lookout so I suppose I will be fine (at least I am getting a checkout first).
I have only 6 hours in a PA28 due purely to financial reasons at Leeds so was flying a Robin 200 but I did find the PA28 easy to fly.
I will post my experience tomorrow after my checkout (weather permitting) to say how it went.
Thanks.
The problem with being trained at LBA I have been lucky with the long runway.
I have always been a cautious pilot and always keeping a good lookout so I suppose I will be fine (at least I am getting a checkout first).
I have only 6 hours in a PA28 due purely to financial reasons at Leeds so was flying a Robin 200 but I did find the PA28 easy to fly.
I will post my experience tomorrow after my checkout (weather permitting) to say how it went.
Thanks.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: god knows
Age: 40
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hr200,
Don't worry about runway length, 830m tarmac at Sherburn is plenty long enough
You'll have no probs flying from Sherburn. Fantastic airfield, and as has been said above, excellent availability during the week. Frustrating that Sherburn is closed on Mondays, most mondays seem to have been good flying days this year
.
If your instructor is Jonathan, he is an excellent bloke!
Don't worry about runway length, 830m tarmac at Sherburn is plenty long enough
You'll have no probs flying from Sherburn. Fantastic airfield, and as has been said above, excellent availability during the week. Frustrating that Sherburn is closed on Mondays, most mondays seem to have been good flying days this year
. If your instructor is Jonathan, he is an excellent bloke!
Upto The Buffers
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Leeds/Bradford
Age: 48
Posts: 1,112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've been to Sherburn a few times and it's a pretty nice place to fly in and out of. If it was closer to my home I'd certainly consider basing there, despite my fetish for things such as midnight flyouts on new year's eve to watch the fireworks, almost certainly a non-starter at Sherbet. The A/G is easy to adjust to, just remember you're advising them what you're doing, instead of them telling you what to do. So instead of ATC saying, "G-XX, Taxy L1 via G for runway 32, report ready, cleared to leave the zone via Eccup, VFR, not above 2000ft, QNH1234, SQ1234, yawn, ZZzzzzz", you'd just say something like, "G-XX, by the pumps, taxying for 29 tarmac, like it or lump it ".
That said, I'm part of a group at Leeds flying something rather more refined than a PA28 and even though there are monthly subs to pay it works out cheaper than Sherburn if you fly 3hrs/month and know how to use the red knob!
".That said, I'm part of a group at Leeds flying something rather more refined than a PA28 and even though there are monthly subs to pay it works out cheaper than Sherburn if you fly 3hrs/month and know how to use the red knob!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: West Yorkshire Zone
Posts: 976
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Many Moons Ago.Lol
I started at Sherburn, Then Because I lived with my parents then, And the wx in the sherburn area, I decided to join up at Multiflight.
Then like people have said the fees were so high, You were talking a lesson was 110.00 ph + T&g's + other fees.
A dear do, So I again returned to Sherburn to do the PPL.
To be honest I found the Instructing better at Multiflight, But on the down side, The social aspect was just not there.
When you have had a lesson/s you need to unwind, And maybe talk to other students usually over a beer or 2 - Harmless talk.
But Multiflight changed fast from being Yorkshire Aero club, Into a 'Roll on Roll off' training school.
You came and had your lesson, Then you left staright afterwards.
Multiflight did not encourage any social elements at the school when I was there, And I am aware this is still the same atmosphere?.
With some staff & instructors 'Barely' being able to say 'Hello' - if that!!
Some were 'Stiffy' & boring like any where else.
My instructor was an Excellent Instructor, He is now at TOM on the 767.
The last I heard, And he deserves it.
I think Multiflight have put a few people off, For having a 'Cold' atmosphere, They are a business out to make money obviously.
Sherburn is totally the opposite, But I found the Instructors more laid back there, And I had a different Instructor on many occasions, So was repeating some lessons over and over again, Other than that no major problems at Sherburn other than the wx if travelling 20 + miles.
Also like some other training clubs or schools, You get Instructors who are 'Number Crunching' who just sit and watch you and give little instruction.
Always prefered Tarmac to grass, Enjoyed landing on 28 when it was operational.
Multiflight do make it clear that, It is a training school, Not a flying club like Sherburn, And after your lesson/s you go home, unlike Sherburn where you can sit in the bar/cafe area and talk 'Shop'
Not ideal, But true life.
Happy New Year & Good Luck.
I started at Sherburn, Then Because I lived with my parents then, And the wx in the sherburn area, I decided to join up at Multiflight.
Then like people have said the fees were so high, You were talking a lesson was 110.00 ph + T&g's + other fees.
A dear do, So I again returned to Sherburn to do the PPL.
To be honest I found the Instructing better at Multiflight, But on the down side, The social aspect was just not there.
When you have had a lesson/s you need to unwind, And maybe talk to other students usually over a beer or 2 - Harmless talk.
But Multiflight changed fast from being Yorkshire Aero club, Into a 'Roll on Roll off' training school.
You came and had your lesson, Then you left staright afterwards.
Multiflight did not encourage any social elements at the school when I was there, And I am aware this is still the same atmosphere?.
With some staff & instructors 'Barely' being able to say 'Hello' - if that!!
Some were 'Stiffy' & boring like any where else.
My instructor was an Excellent Instructor, He is now at TOM on the 767.
The last I heard, And he deserves it.
I think Multiflight have put a few people off, For having a 'Cold' atmosphere, They are a business out to make money obviously.
Sherburn is totally the opposite, But I found the Instructors more laid back there, And I had a different Instructor on many occasions, So was repeating some lessons over and over again, Other than that no major problems at Sherburn other than the wx if travelling 20 + miles.
Also like some other training clubs or schools, You get Instructors who are 'Number Crunching' who just sit and watch you and give little instruction.
Always prefered Tarmac to grass, Enjoyed landing on 28 when it was operational.
Multiflight do make it clear that, It is a training school, Not a flying club like Sherburn, And after your lesson/s you go home, unlike Sherburn where you can sit in the bar/cafe area and talk 'Shop'
Not ideal, But true life.
Happy New Year & Good Luck.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: N/A
Age: 34
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Byalphaindia,
I know what you mean about Multiflight having a cold atmosphere, it is hard to really get to know anybody there.
When I was getting my PPL my instructor was Vernon Guppy all the way through, I found him to be great.
Now I have my PPL I have more freedom to try and base elsewhere and that's why I thought there is no harm in trying Sherburn, also looking forward to be around people that enjoy flying.
I know what you mean about Multiflight having a cold atmosphere, it is hard to really get to know anybody there.
When I was getting my PPL my instructor was Vernon Guppy all the way through, I found him to be great.
Now I have my PPL I have more freedom to try and base elsewhere and that's why I thought there is no harm in trying Sherburn, also looking forward to be around people that enjoy flying.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: West Yorkshire Zone
Posts: 976
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah, A bit after my time - I have heard of V Guppy to be a great instructor.
'Big' Malc is ok, Funny when he gets stressed out!! also Andy T the C I, Both ok when you get to know them more.
And 'Old' Jack hangs around counting his pennies & sharing his sweets, talking to anyone.
All good company.
'Big' Malc is ok, Funny when he gets stressed out!! also Andy T the C I, Both ok when you get to know them more.
And 'Old' Jack hangs around counting his pennies & sharing his sweets, talking to anyone.
All good company.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: N/A
Age: 34
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mickey Kaye,
Ill have to see you down there sometime!
I am glad to say my RT is pretty good in that I don't struggle and am fairly clear so I hope to adapt quickly. It is the R/T I am unsure about the most.
As I have my checkout tomorrow I will go down there with my radio a little earlier and listen to other a/c in the circuit.
Ill have to see you down there sometime!
I am glad to say my RT is pretty good in that I don't struggle and am fairly clear so I hope to adapt quickly. It is the R/T I am unsure about the most.
As I have my checkout tomorrow I will go down there with my radio a little earlier and listen to other a/c in the circuit.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: N/A
Age: 34
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey guys, just too let you know I managed to get some circuits in.
The vis was very poor estimated around 5000m. Will do some general handling exercises next week before the club will let me take their aircraft solo.
The R/T was fine, there is nothing to it compared to what I was expecting. Difficult to aviod local villages for noise abatement due to the poor vis but all round very happy.
If any of you are down there and see my name on the booking board (surname Chitty) please say hi.
Regards,
Andrew
The vis was very poor estimated around 5000m. Will do some general handling exercises next week before the club will let me take their aircraft solo.
The R/T was fine, there is nothing to it compared to what I was expecting. Difficult to aviod local villages for noise abatement due to the poor vis but all round very happy.
If any of you are down there and see my name on the booking board (surname Chitty) please say hi.
Regards,
Andrew
