Scrap the IMCR
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Pace
Next time i`m going to fly IMC,
i also going to remember all your posts before t/o and a big smile is going to be in my face ,flying IFR with 15 Hrs of training.
Next time i`m going to fly IMC,
i also going to remember all your posts before t/o and a big smile is going to be in my face ,flying IFR with 15 Hrs of training.
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How some here can promote 15 hrs training on an IMCR course and then state that they are IFR ready bemuses me
The FAA IR is only 15hrs of dual training, too. But nobody passes the checkride after 15hrs of dual training. ICAO min dual training for the IR is ......... guess ......... 10hrs!!
Demonstrated competence is the key. One has to get away from a "minimum training hours", which is completely irrelevant. One may as well require the school to have ISO9000...
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Originally Posted by Pace
How some here can promote 15 hrs training on an IMCR course and then state that they are IFR ready bemuses me
It takes a lot more than that to be safe in an IFR/IMC invironment.
Used with caution and self limitation as a back up for the VFR pilot the IMCR is a useful safety tool but thats all. Its not an IR which some here seem to think it is.
It takes a lot more than that to be safe in an IFR/IMC invironment.
Used with caution and self limitation as a back up for the VFR pilot the IMCR is a useful safety tool but thats all. Its not an IR which some here seem to think it is.
There are some very good IMC pilots out there for whom the IMC is not a "get you out of trouble" rating but a "get you there" rating. Conversely there are some supposed IR's out there who I wouldn't trust to sit the right way up on a toilet seat. The number of 250 hour CPL/IR's with frozen ATPL's, in the right hand seat of a 737, who can't string two words together, is amazing!
You can't generalise the way you are doing. I agree - nobody is ready for complex IFR scenarios after 15 hours training, but then neither is a 40 hour IR who has done nothing but flown the same routes with the safety net of an instructor next to them. NEITHER of them will have developed the decision making / captaincy skills that come with experience.
I used my IMC as an "IR light" until I got my IR. I learned a lot, used it a lot, stayed current. The end result was when I turned up to get my IR (the same one you had until you got your ATP I suspect) my instructor was happy with "training as required" - and it wasn't a great deal that was required. Why? I'd used, I'd learned, I'd stayed current.
I think there is a place for it, but I do think the current 25 month currency is wrong and it should be brought in line with the IR - 12 months. This would hopefully weedle out the person who thinks they're ok even if it hasn't been used for a year and a half but keeping the person who, like me, was just as competent as an IR, albeit with higher minima (yes - I know it's only a recommendation before anyone says!) and uses it properly.
Until the current IR becomes more attainable, like the FAA one in terms of groundschool / exams and flight testing it is a useful addition to the UK pilots armoury and should be protected.
Last edited by Chilli Monster; 30th Dec 2008 at 22:21.
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Chilli Monster
I fully appreciate that there are many competant pilots who fly hard IMC with an IMCR and do so out of controlled airspace when often it would be safer for them to climb into controlled airspace.
They do so fairly low level often with poor radar coverage in the worst weather. So my hat of to them. I have been there and done that!
But where do we go from here? Do we push for an FAA style IR or do we try and get EASA to approve the IMCR and what nature will that IMCR be.
No I do not trust our European law makers to have our interests at heart neither do I trust them to have aviations interests at heart.
So what exactly are we pushing for?
Pace
I fully appreciate that there are many competant pilots who fly hard IMC with an IMCR and do so out of controlled airspace when often it would be safer for them to climb into controlled airspace.
They do so fairly low level often with poor radar coverage in the worst weather. So my hat of to them. I have been there and done that!
But where do we go from here? Do we push for an FAA style IR or do we try and get EASA to approve the IMCR and what nature will that IMCR be.
No I do not trust our European law makers to have our interests at heart neither do I trust them to have aviations interests at heart.
So what exactly are we pushing for?
Pace
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Do we push for an FAA style IR or do we try and get EASA to approve the IMCR and what nature will that IMCR be.
And I don't trust them either. At the end of the day the powers that be are just politicians, who prove themselves time and time again to be the most self serving branch of society.
(Definition of a Politician? Someone who couldn't pass the real estate exams!)
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There is zero prospect of an FAA-like IR here.
The European regulators just hold up their hands and say "we are Europeans, not Americans, and we must have European solutions".
They may as well say "computer says NO".
There is some work ongoing at EASA committee level on this, as discussed here already recently. But the end result will be nowhere near the FAA IR, in the sense of a single exam, and being able to pop into your old PPL school and do it flying out of there under a hood - these factors are what make is so accessible in the USA. Due to political (protectionist) factors these bits will not happen here in Europe.
One could hope for this IR to be modular and perhaps one of the lower modules having some IFR privileges, and the IMCR then grandfathering into one of these modules, perhaps with a checkride or whatever.
The pressure for a solution will become pretty massive nearer the day
The European regulators just hold up their hands and say "we are Europeans, not Americans, and we must have European solutions".
They may as well say "computer says NO".
There is some work ongoing at EASA committee level on this, as discussed here already recently. But the end result will be nowhere near the FAA IR, in the sense of a single exam, and being able to pop into your old PPL school and do it flying out of there under a hood - these factors are what make is so accessible in the USA. Due to political (protectionist) factors these bits will not happen here in Europe.
One could hope for this IR to be modular and perhaps one of the lower modules having some IFR privileges, and the IMCR then grandfathering into one of these modules, perhaps with a checkride or whatever.
The pressure for a solution will become pretty massive nearer the day
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Scrap the IMCR.
It should only be available to PPL who can prove that they fly 150+ hours per year.
Makes you laugh at the idiots that try and fly 20 hours a year and state that an IR is on their list of priorities. Wake up, smell the coffee, go and do a bit of flying or give it up for a bad job.
It should only be available to PPL who can prove that they fly 150+ hours per year.
Makes you laugh at the idiots that try and fly 20 hours a year and state that an IR is on their list of priorities. Wake up, smell the coffee, go and do a bit of flying or give it up for a bad job.
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Scrap the IMCR.
It should only be available to PPL who can prove that they fly 150+ hours per year.
Makes you laugh at the idiots that try and fly 20 hours a year and state that an IR is on their list of priorities. Wake up, smell the coffee, go and do a bit of flying or give it up for a bad job.
It should only be available to PPL who can prove that they fly 150+ hours per year.
Makes you laugh at the idiots that try and fly 20 hours a year and state that an IR is on their list of priorities. Wake up, smell the coffee, go and do a bit of flying or give it up for a bad job.
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One could hope for this IR to be modular and perhaps one of the lower modules having some IFR privileges, and the IMCR then grandfathering into one of these modules, perhaps with a checkride or whatever.
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Is this not what they do in Australia, with different qualifications for individual approaches?
If the above URL doesn't work,
Go to CASA.gov.au --> Current Rules --> Civil Aviation Orders --> Part 40 --> PIFR, or Current Rules --> Civil Aviation Advisory Publications for the CAAP
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Originally Posted by johnm
Silly and unhelpful, many pilots enjoy the training and skills development as much as any other aspect of flying and that shouldn't be discouraged.
The only guys it seems to me that do any sort of descent hours are the guys that CANNOT hold a IMCR/IR, the microlight lads. They make me feel downright ashamed of being a PPL(A) flying 30 to 60 hours a year when they are all over the place, flying all over the country. How many of us do that?
There is a need for PPL's do do a minimum amount of annual hours before considering wasting more money on yet another useless bit of paper when they are not making use of what they have. Makes them more of an enthusiast rather than a pilot and fit in the same barrel as a spotter.
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Originally Posted by JohnHarris
The only guys it seems to me that do any sort of descent hours are the guys that CANNOT hold a IMCR/IR, the microlight lads. They make me feel downright ashamed of being a PPL(A) flying 30 to 60 hours a year when they are all over the place, flying all over the country. How many of us do that?
Until that time - I'll stick to staying current and doing decent hours in my SEP thank you very much, more often than not by flying all over a bit more than this country
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Originally Posted by chillimonster
Find me a microlight that carries 4 people, at 140Kts, 900nm, day or night, VMC or IMC, and you may convince me to invest in one.
Until that time - I'll stick to staying current and doing decent hours in my SEP thank you very much, more often than not by flying all over a bit more than this country
Until that time - I'll stick to staying current and doing decent hours in my SEP thank you very much, more often than not by flying all over a bit more than this country
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Err, what part of "Microlight" are you having problems with?
It was your comment:
The only guys it seems to me that do any sort of descent hours are the guys that CANNOT hold a IMCR/IR, the microlight lads. They make me feel downright ashamed of being a PPL(A) flying 30 to 60 hours a year when they are all over the place, flying all over the country.
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Quote:
Err, what part of "Microlight" are you having problems with?
All of it - hence the response
It was your comment:
Quote:
The only guys it seems to me that do any sort of descent hours are the guys that CANNOT hold a IMCR/IR, the microlight lads. They make me feel downright ashamed of being a PPL(A) flying 30 to 60 hours a year when they are all over the place, flying all over the country.
Which was a little bit all encompassing, over generalising and frankly pretty patronising.
In hindsight, I tend to agree with you, especially when the ßãѕťâгđ 3 axis types are quicker than my beat up spam can, tiz us that has to give way now, O how things change Tally ho.
Err, what part of "Microlight" are you having problems with?
All of it - hence the response
It was your comment:
Quote:
The only guys it seems to me that do any sort of descent hours are the guys that CANNOT hold a IMCR/IR, the microlight lads. They make me feel downright ashamed of being a PPL(A) flying 30 to 60 hours a year when they are all over the place, flying all over the country.
Which was a little bit all encompassing, over generalising and frankly pretty patronising.
In hindsight, I tend to agree with you, especially when the ßãѕťâгđ 3 axis types are quicker than my beat up spam can, tiz us that has to give way now, O how things change Tally ho.
