Average hours to first solo
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,804
Likes: 1
Why, then is this learning to fly in the circuit still going on?
I find circuits boring as hell and a right pain and made it my mission to spend as little time doing them as possible.
Every single student I inherited who was having problems lacked the basic handling skills. In every case they had only spent less than an hour on S&L I/II and Effects of controls. Every single one of them was taken away from the circuit and those lessons revised. Then they usually got an hour of trimming and flying attitudes for different configurations which to be honest is equally boring for me but is more than worth it.
Then I got them flying the correct speeds.
And usually that was enough for another 1-2 hours doing circuits and then off solo. Which to be honest the majority of my own students used to do.
Its all in those first lessons which some seem to skip.
I know I shouldn't but with my day job line training I quite often have to do the same lessons on S&L and trimming for different configurations for new multicrew pilots. As they "get it" their work load drops off and then they improve leaps and bounds.
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: London
MJ
That rings very true of my experience when I did the PPL. I rarely, if ever, felt I'd actually mastered anything before rushing on to the next stage. This was particularly true of stall recoveries and even simple trimming. I found this most frustrating. Even after the skill test, I still found myself fannying around with the trim for a long time during each flight.
While I understood the concepts in the briefing, it was always hard when doing it practically in the air.
The problem with not being having the knack of trim and S&L is that you become fixated on it and your workload is significantly increased as a result. That has a knock-on effect on learning the other stuff as you're not concentrating on what you're meant to be learning. Although there is some benefit in pushing your personal limits with an instructor, if you can't comfortably do the basics reasonably well already you're wasting a lot of flying hours IMHO.
That rings very true of my experience when I did the PPL. I rarely, if ever, felt I'd actually mastered anything before rushing on to the next stage. This was particularly true of stall recoveries and even simple trimming. I found this most frustrating. Even after the skill test, I still found myself fannying around with the trim for a long time during each flight.
While I understood the concepts in the briefing, it was always hard when doing it practically in the air.
The problem with not being having the knack of trim and S&L is that you become fixated on it and your workload is significantly increased as a result. That has a knock-on effect on learning the other stuff as you're not concentrating on what you're meant to be learning. Although there is some benefit in pushing your personal limits with an instructor, if you can't comfortably do the basics reasonably well already you're wasting a lot of flying hours IMHO.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,434
Likes: 0
From: Scotland
I remember spending too much time in the circuit pissing about with trimming & attitude, never enough time to get it right, then fighting the thing trying to land out of trim. The time taken along downwind is not long enough to learn to trim the thing, especially when they insist you fly at 90knots! Turn base, set 2stage flaps, trim for 65 etc.
I've had my a/c for 6yrs & if I don't fly for a month or more I've found the best thing is to take off, bugger about for 15mins chucking it about before landing/t&g. Trim for 60/55 in the downwind, half flaps etc. Otherwise the landing is utter crap. Once back in practice it can be flung at the ground sideways, final trim at threshold.
I've had my a/c for 6yrs & if I don't fly for a month or more I've found the best thing is to take off, bugger about for 15mins chucking it about before landing/t&g. Trim for 60/55 in the downwind, half flaps etc. Otherwise the landing is utter crap. Once back in practice it can be flung at the ground sideways, final trim at threshold.
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 412
Likes: 0
From: Unna, Germany
Hows does that work with the girlies?
Either way, the one who can claim the lower hours to solo will usually pull the girl but she'll end up disappointed because my experience in life is that anybody who needs to overstate themselves, be it with acheivements (as in "I soloed after only 17 seconds instruction, blindfolded with an arm and a leg tied behind my back") or with their choice of motor vehicle (as in "look at my Porsche 911 GT3 Carrera RS - it has a racing cage in it to give the car rigidity to allow me to reach higher speeds on track days) is usually overcompensating for something else he's missing....
... Now where did I leave the keys to my Citroen 2CV......
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,804
Likes: 1
more or less interested piece of totty looking on, in awe of the sky-gods discussing their courage and heroism?
By far the biggest topic I have heard is people trying to out do each other with is how stupid they have been and how much they shat themselves at the time.
Could be the Scottish version of I solo'd in 2 hours mind.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,113
Likes: 2
From: 23, Railway Cuttings, East Cheam
Well the OP was 'average hours to first solo'. So I'm assuming someone is collating and getting an average amongst the replies.
I agree, I find the 'I shat myself' posts far more informative and amusing than average hours to first solo.
I nearly clobbered a buzzard climbing out from Gt Massingham yesterday, does that count?
I agree, I find the 'I shat myself' posts far more informative and amusing than average hours to first solo.
I nearly clobbered a buzzard climbing out from Gt Massingham yesterday, does that count?
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Banff, AB
I'm just about to go solo. I started my training on the parries in a k-21 and was feeling close to solo after 15 hours. The average flight was 25min. This year I switched to flying in the rocky mountains in a 2-33. It took some time to get used to the old ship and mountains. The big difference was each flight averaged about 1h45min.
This week if the weather is good I will solo after 40 hours. I was told it would just be a circuit. I said that I'm not sure if I want to solo if all I get to do is a circuit. So I was told they'd drop me by a common smaller mountain we use to get lift. I'm hoping I can do big soaring flights in my training. It costs $50 a flight no matter how long I stay up so I'd like my average flight to be at least 3 hours. Even if I can't go cross country, I can check out all the peaks in the vicinity of the airport.
I think it's a little longer in gliders because you don't pay much so there is more just flying for fun than serious working on technique. Then if you have flights averaging more than an hour but only one takeoff and landing you could have 40 hours of flight with just 20 landings.
I feel a bit like I'm bragging about how fantastic the soaring is at Invermere. Our 22 members that submit their flights to the olc have over double the points of the second highest club in Canada.
This week if the weather is good I will solo after 40 hours. I was told it would just be a circuit. I said that I'm not sure if I want to solo if all I get to do is a circuit. So I was told they'd drop me by a common smaller mountain we use to get lift. I'm hoping I can do big soaring flights in my training. It costs $50 a flight no matter how long I stay up so I'd like my average flight to be at least 3 hours. Even if I can't go cross country, I can check out all the peaks in the vicinity of the airport.
I think it's a little longer in gliders because you don't pay much so there is more just flying for fun than serious working on technique. Then if you have flights averaging more than an hour but only one takeoff and landing you could have 40 hours of flight with just 20 landings.
I feel a bit like I'm bragging about how fantastic the soaring is at Invermere. Our 22 members that submit their flights to the olc have over double the points of the second highest club in Canada.
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 219
Likes: 4
From: Wandsworth
I'm just about to go solo. I started my training on the parries in a k-21 and was feeling close to solo after 15 hours. The average flight was 25min. This year I switched to flying in the rocky mountains in a 2-33. It took some time to get used to the old ship and mountains. The big difference was each flight averaged about 1h45min.
This week if the weather is good I will solo after 40 hours. I was told it would just be a circuit. I said that I'm not sure if I want to solo if all I get to do is a circuit. So I was told they'd drop me by a common smaller mountain we use to get lift. I'm hoping I can do big soaring flights in my training. It costs $50 a flight no matter how long I stay up so I'd like my average flight to be at least 3 hours. Even if I can't go cross country, I can check out all the peaks in the vicinity of the airport.
I think it's a little longer in gliders because you don't pay much so there is more just flying for fun than serious working on technique. Then if you have flights averaging more than an hour but only one takeoff and landing you could have 40 hours of flight with just 20 landings.
I feel a bit like I'm bragging about how fantastic the soaring is at Invermere. Our 22 members that submit their flights to the olc have over double the points of the second highest club in Canada.
This week if the weather is good I will solo after 40 hours. I was told it would just be a circuit. I said that I'm not sure if I want to solo if all I get to do is a circuit. So I was told they'd drop me by a common smaller mountain we use to get lift. I'm hoping I can do big soaring flights in my training. It costs $50 a flight no matter how long I stay up so I'd like my average flight to be at least 3 hours. Even if I can't go cross country, I can check out all the peaks in the vicinity of the airport.
I think it's a little longer in gliders because you don't pay much so there is more just flying for fun than serious working on technique. Then if you have flights averaging more than an hour but only one takeoff and landing you could have 40 hours of flight with just 20 landings.
I feel a bit like I'm bragging about how fantastic the soaring is at Invermere. Our 22 members that submit their flights to the olc have over double the points of the second highest club in Canada.
Respect what your instructors say, you are still under the supervision of the instructor when flying solo, they know what is best for you. Overconfidence has never done any inexperienced pilot any good, or impressed anyone.
There is absolutely no need to rush the early solo process, Gliding is done for fun but the skills test for the licence will look at serious technique like any other qualification.
Guest
Posts: n/a
September 1941, U.S. Army Air Corps, Florida. Never been off the ground before, aged 19 - soloed in a Stearman after 8 hours dual over 17 days. About average for my Course.
They had a novel idea - our (rear) cockpits had no ASIs. We were taught to fly our first 60 hrs by Feel and Attitude alone (no sweat, what you've never had, you never miss).
Very useful to me in later years.
They had a novel idea - our (rear) cockpits had no ASIs. We were taught to fly our first 60 hrs by Feel and Attitude alone (no sweat, what you've never had, you never miss).
Very useful to me in later years.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 697
Likes: 0
From: UK
I went solo in a microlight in 7 hours but I have an interesting tale about my lovely wife who went solo in a PA Warrior after something over 70 hours.
The instructors were sensible enough to realise that she was nervous so they skipped the solo bit and took her right up to cross country level before getting her to go solo.
She learned to fly to please me and I was very proud of her. It seemed a sensible thing to do at the time in case I was ever incapacitated when flying with her when she would be able to take control.
Unfortunately she never enjoyed flying but it was reassuring to know that she could, also understand everything I was talking about etc.
The instructors were sensible enough to realise that she was nervous so they skipped the solo bit and took her right up to cross country level before getting her to go solo.
She learned to fly to please me and I was very proud of her. It seemed a sensible thing to do at the time in case I was ever incapacitated when flying with her when she would be able to take control.
Unfortunately she never enjoyed flying but it was reassuring to know that she could, also understand everything I was talking about etc.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3
Likes: 5
From: Wor Yerm
But in Jandakot, 1990...
About six hours but I was a Silver C converter so it doesn't really count. But on a full time CPL course down-under a worthy record holder was a certain AC from Malawi. His 99 hours to solo on his CPL course was certainly remarkable. He was not what you call a natural. Worse was a Mr. K from Singapore. We stopped ground school to watch him taxi. Cruel I know, but was amusing; as was the look of the instructors trying to help him. After ten hours or so it was apparent he was unteachable.
But the hours to solo are not that important. What matters is that you are enjoying the process.
PM
But the hours to solo are not that important. What matters is that you are enjoying the process.
PM
