Buying an aircraft and C172 Vs PA28
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Buying an aircraft and C172 Vs PA28
My partners dad is halfway through his NPPL, me and my brother are half way through our PPLs with the intention of continuing training afterwards and hopefully going commercial.
We hope to buy an aircraft between us when we are qualified. Obviously our requirements will be slightly different, for instance we will want to do our IMC/IRs.
How do the above two aircraft compare to each other?
I realise we will need to look into it more seriously nearer the time and get some expert advice on the pros and cons of buying a plane and whats involved but just wanted some initial thoughts and opinions.
What will tidy examples of each model cost to buy and maintain?
Liam
We hope to buy an aircraft between us when we are qualified. Obviously our requirements will be slightly different, for instance we will want to do our IMC/IRs.
How do the above two aircraft compare to each other?
I realise we will need to look into it more seriously nearer the time and get some expert advice on the pros and cons of buying a plane and whats involved but just wanted some initial thoughts and opinions.
What will tidy examples of each model cost to buy and maintain?
Liam
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Low wing versus high wing and a different throttle system are the main differences.
I suggest you fly both types.
Traditionally people learning on a 152 would choose the Cessna, those on a Tomahawk would choose the PA28
I suggest you fly both types.
Traditionally people learning on a 152 would choose the Cessna, those on a Tomahawk would choose the PA28
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Obviously there are a plethora of variants but, comparing apples with apples, they are both solid aircraft. So, if you were to look at a 160HP 172 and a similarly powered Warrior, you would find that operating costs would be similar. As far as flying them is concerned, they both have similar performance. AS VH says, it comes down to personal preference. Mine would be for the 172, but that is purely subjective.
You can't go far wrong with either type.
You can't go far wrong with either type.
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You should also consider the Robin DR400 series. You will need to hangar a Robin, and parts may be more difficult to get, but they are lovely aircraft to fly and offer performance advantages over both American types due to light weight and a clever wing.
Visibilty and handling are far better too. The reason they are not as common in the UK is more one of familiarity - ie Engineers and clubs stick with what they know. Find an engineer who knows them, plus a hangar and you'll never look at a spam can again!
Visibilty and handling are far better too. The reason they are not as common in the UK is more one of familiarity - ie Engineers and clubs stick with what they know. Find an engineer who knows them, plus a hangar and you'll never look at a spam can again!
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You should also consider the Robin DR400 series.
I just checked the website and even the -200R seems to be VFR/NVFR only.
Lovely aircraft though. I flew a -120 to Berlin and back a few weeks ago.
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“Is any DR400 IFR certified?”
Yes, subject to instrument fit like a 172/pa28. The DR400 is a much better aircraft, it will lift more and go faster for a given engine power than the US spam cans, but you cannot keep it outside.
Rod1
Yes, subject to instrument fit like a 172/pa28. The DR400 is a much better aircraft, it will lift more and go faster for a given engine power than the US spam cans, but you cannot keep it outside.
Rod1
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Traditionally people learning on a 152 would choose the Cessna, those on a Tomahawk would choose the PA28
All that said, both are very capable machines, it really comes down to personal preferences.
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I know of a number of Robins that happily live outside year in year out. That said, they get recovered more often and I would always wish to put one in a hangar. Nice aircraft to fly.
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Why does it have to be a PA28 or C172? There are better choices available for similar money. We bought a C177 because we wanted something faster, which would carry more weight, with a nice big cabin, had great viz in turns despite being high wing, didn't have struts, and looks better than the usual suspects by a mile.
Buying an aeroplane is not a short-term investment, but do the homework and it can be a rewarding experience.
Buying an aeroplane is not a short-term investment, but do the homework and it can be a rewarding experience.
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Remember also the PA28 has only one door, so if the passenger sitting next to it is obese or otherwise unable to move, in an accident everybody is stuffed.
I much prefer low wing (for visibility) but if I had to choose between two pieces of wreckage (PA28 v C172) I would go for the Cessna, because it has two decent doors, better grass / short field capability, and neither is much good for European touring due to the relatively limited range. The Cessna is also easier to land (less speed critical) due to much lower ground effect.
The OP seems to want this plane for ongoing training to build hours, so there isn't much point in going for something exotic.
I much prefer low wing (for visibility) but if I had to choose between two pieces of wreckage (PA28 v C172) I would go for the Cessna, because it has two decent doors, better grass / short field capability, and neither is much good for European touring due to the relatively limited range. The Cessna is also easier to land (less speed critical) due to much lower ground effect.
The OP seems to want this plane for ongoing training to build hours, so there isn't much point in going for something exotic.
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neither is much good for European touring due to the relatively limited range.
Of course, you could go for an oil burning PA28 and stay up for ever.
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Consider what I have, a Beech Sundowner 180.
Bigger cabin than either the Piper or Cessna. Low-wing, but two doors.
They tend to be undervalued in the market. You can get one, which is essentially in the Archer class, for not much more than a 172, maybe even less.
Old-wives' tales about being a handful on landing are just that... old wives' tales.
Beech
Bigger cabin than either the Piper or Cessna. Low-wing, but two doors.
They tend to be undervalued in the market. You can get one, which is essentially in the Archer class, for not much more than a 172, maybe even less.
Old-wives' tales about being a handful on landing are just that... old wives' tales.
Beech
Last edited by BeechNut; 8th Dec 2008 at 00:08.
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Only 8? I guess that rules that out.
We have 42 C23s on the Canadian register, plus 15 B23s and 35 A23s. Not to mention 16 B19 Sports.
I would have thought the UK numbers would be similar. I guess not...
Beech
We have 42 C23s on the Canadian register, plus 15 B23s and 35 A23s. Not to mention 16 B19 Sports.
I would have thought the UK numbers would be similar. I guess not...
Beech
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On the basis that doors are for cars have you considered an AA5? If you cannot find a Robin for the right price then this would give you an alternative. The 180hp AA5B version is a reasonable instrument platform with 125kn at 75%.
Rod1
Rod1
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Could anyone who have a PA-28 or C172 give me a rough idea of what there running costs. I fly between 300 and 400 hours per year.
Am I also correct in thinking that it is possible to get approval for MOGAS on the 172 (depending on engine) and not for the PA-28.
I am UK based
Am I also correct in thinking that it is possible to get approval for MOGAS on the 172 (depending on engine) and not for the PA-28.
I am UK based
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300-400hrs/year is a helluva lot of hours for a genuine private pilot and way above the verifiable hours of anybody I've ever met - except one bloke who actually used to do that in his TB20 flying on business all over Europe, but now he's down to a mere ~ 120 
In your case, the fuel will be the dominant factor, plus 50hr checks, plus (if on G-reg) 150hr checks (which cost almost as much as the Annual).
You will save about 1/3 if you learn to fly lean of peak.
Say the fuel is 35 litres/hr... you can work that one out.
The 50hr checks will be £200-£600 depending whether DIY or by a JAR145 firm.
The 150hr is about £2000, maybe less, definitely more if any actual work needs doing.
The Annual about £2000, maybe less, definitely more if any actual work needs doing.
So, a few tens of thousands of £ per year.
But hang on.... you say you are currently doing 300-400hrs/year. What are you doing this in?? Surely you must know all this stuff. And if on mogas you are probably VFR, which is hard to believe for that # of hours.
In your case, the fuel will be the dominant factor, plus 50hr checks, plus (if on G-reg) 150hr checks (which cost almost as much as the Annual).
You will save about 1/3 if you learn to fly lean of peak.
Say the fuel is 35 litres/hr... you can work that one out.
The 50hr checks will be £200-£600 depending whether DIY or by a JAR145 firm.
The 150hr is about £2000, maybe less, definitely more if any actual work needs doing.
The Annual about £2000, maybe less, definitely more if any actual work needs doing.
So, a few tens of thousands of £ per year.
But hang on.... you say you are currently doing 300-400hrs/year. What are you doing this in?? Surely you must know all this stuff. And if on mogas you are probably VFR, which is hard to believe for that # of hours.