Steamy windows in a pa28
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cheshire
Age: 79
Posts: 506
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
more condensation + + + . . . . .
I’ve read through this thread again with greatly increased interest, as the same thing happened to me today. Our aircraft ( not a PA28 like the OP’s, but a C172 Hawk XP) is kept outside, rather than in a hangar, so we’re quite used to a little bit of condensation occurring in winter. Admittedly it had not been flown for about twelve days, but the internal condensation today was probably the worst I’ve ever seen. Water was dripping down my arm as I tried to clear the inside of the screen ! It took ages as well, presumably because the air in the plane was just so damp - for a long time more condensation was forming just as soon as I wiped it away !
But there’s more to this than just the visibility through the windscreen. There was reference made earlier to condensation occurring on the inside of the hull skin, and perhaps collecting there . . . . out of sight, of course !
One other thing today was that the Artificial Horizon seemed to take for ever to stabilise. It was still rolling and toppling as I took off ( I’d decided, because I was going only local, 100% VFR in CAVOK, that it was OK to fly with this item U/S). As the cabin warmed up in flight, the instrument did eventually stabilise. I reckon that this had probably also suffered from internal condensation, which shows that in other circumstances there could be very real air safety concerns about this.
Next thing will be to discuss with my partners getting hold of some bags of silica gel, as others have so helpfully suggested ! Thanks for the advice !
But there’s more to this than just the visibility through the windscreen. There was reference made earlier to condensation occurring on the inside of the hull skin, and perhaps collecting there . . . . out of sight, of course !
One other thing today was that the Artificial Horizon seemed to take for ever to stabilise. It was still rolling and toppling as I took off ( I’d decided, because I was going only local, 100% VFR in CAVOK, that it was OK to fly with this item U/S). As the cabin warmed up in flight, the instrument did eventually stabilise. I reckon that this had probably also suffered from internal condensation, which shows that in other circumstances there could be very real air safety concerns about this.
Next thing will be to discuss with my partners getting hold of some bags of silica gel, as others have so helpfully suggested ! Thanks for the advice !
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would suggest checking the door seals with a hosepipe / watering can.
During my PPL training, it was completely normal to drain out huge amounts of water, and once I drained out about a pint out of a Tomahawk. This was clearly due to perished seals, since an analysis of the max possible amount of water )potential condensate) which can exist in the tank is only a few cc. Door seals are also often less than great. Even a few drops leaking indoors will drastically raise the RH in there.
The horizon might need bearings replaced. I would contact Pandect - they charge a few hundred quid for a basic bearing overhaul. IMHO condensation would not affect the horizon unless it is very nearly gone and the bearings are seizing up.
During my PPL training, it was completely normal to drain out huge amounts of water, and once I drained out about a pint out of a Tomahawk. This was clearly due to perished seals, since an analysis of the max possible amount of water )potential condensate) which can exist in the tank is only a few cc. Door seals are also often less than great. Even a few drops leaking indoors will drastically raise the RH in there.
The horizon might need bearings replaced. I would contact Pandect - they charge a few hundred quid for a basic bearing overhaul. IMHO condensation would not affect the horizon unless it is very nearly gone and the bearings are seizing up.
Start the engine and open the door and keep it open whilst you taxi out - but a) obviously check the prop area is clear before starting and b) brief the person in the right hand seat to hang onto the door, especially when taxiing downwind in fresh winds otherwise you'll be buying a new door stay!
This works perfectly every time and, oh by the way, make sure the door is closed and latched before take off!
This works perfectly every time and, oh by the way, make sure the door is closed and latched before take off!
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't see what taxiing with the doors open will achieve.
If there is water in the upholstery, the only way to get it out is to reduce the RH in the cockpit for a good while, which can be achieved by widening the temp/dewpoint spread with ........... a heater
I'd stick the plane in a hangar for a day or two with a fan heater inside, and the doors slightly open.
Then fix the door seals.
The Tomahawks I use to train in sometimes had a puddle of water on the floor, ~ 0.5" deep. Just like a Datsun 100A F-II I used to have in the 1970s, except on that one I drilled a little hole in the floor to drain it out
If there is water in the upholstery, the only way to get it out is to reduce the RH in the cockpit for a good while, which can be achieved by widening the temp/dewpoint spread with ........... a heater
I'd stick the plane in a hangar for a day or two with a fan heater inside, and the doors slightly open.Then fix the door seals.
The Tomahawks I use to train in sometimes had a puddle of water on the floor, ~ 0.5" deep. Just like a Datsun 100A F-II I used to have in the 1970s, except on that one I drilled a little hole in the floor to drain it out
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: E Anglia
Posts: 1,102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We had a dreadful steamy windows problem (no, not Tina Turner) which caused problems with the avionics and gas display on the RNAV as our hangar was a bit leaky.Aircraft always smelt damp
Initially partially solved by putting on the Cambrai cover even when in the hangar.
Then we persuaded the Farmer we lease the strip from to let us get a cable from his T2 hangar and we were able to install a mini dehumidifier and a small space heater. (essential in the winter as a frozen de-humid doesn't work.).
Job done.
If you don't have the luxury of 'lectric, then the silica gel option is pretty effective, but needs frequent changes to remain effective especially in the early stages when the a/c is full of moisture.
Cusco
Initially partially solved by putting on the Cambrai cover even when in the hangar.
Then we persuaded the Farmer we lease the strip from to let us get a cable from his T2 hangar and we were able to install a mini dehumidifier and a small space heater. (essential in the winter as a frozen de-humid doesn't work.).
Job done.
If you don't have the luxury of 'lectric, then the silica gel option is pretty effective, but needs frequent changes to remain effective especially in the early stages when the a/c is full of moisture.
Cusco
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: .
Age: 37
Posts: 649
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I flew as a passenger in an Archer yesterday, and noticed this problem on the rear passenger windows before take-off. The RH was high yesterday. Using the heater seemed to cure the problem fairly quickly - shortly after takeoff the windows cleared. Perhaps some aircraft are worse affected than others.
Smithy
Smithy
