multi engine rating?
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multi engine rating?
to those who have done it, how long did you wait after your PPL to start it and how difficult did you find it?
also whats the average cost in the UK?
Liam
also whats the average cost in the UK?
Liam
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This is one of the most enjoyable and rewarding things I have done since ppl. You need 70hrs P1 as per the previous post. I did this after 3 years post PPl with approx 300hrs, IMC and approx 120 hrs in the arrow.
Really hones up your flying skills and I think worth getting experience with a complex single first.
It is however great fun and twin flying always broadens the smile further.
Be aware that hiring a twin post MER is not easy. Many will insist on high numbers of P1 multi hours (understandably) and may need to look at shares.
It is an experience though not to be missed.
Really hones up your flying skills and I think worth getting experience with a complex single first.
It is however great fun and twin flying always broadens the smile further.
Be aware that hiring a twin post MER is not easy. Many will insist on high numbers of P1 multi hours (understandably) and may need to look at shares.
It is an experience though not to be missed.
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You have to have 70 hours PIC before you can start the course.
Mind me asking why you ask your question? Why are you considering a multi engine rating? Don't answer if you don't want to - none of my business really.
PM if you prefer.
<edit: My message crossed with others at the same time.>
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I know a guy who is doing a PPL on a twin but FAA 
so realistically on JAA as soon as regulations allow.
What are your reasons for a post basic PPL on a twin? Is it that you have access to one that you wish to fly? It is important especially with a twin that you do enough time on one to keep current and up to speed in the event of the dreaded EF
Many get a twin rating then hardly touch them again. Once you have it then its another rating to maintain so probably better to leave until you have a need for one.
Pace
so realistically on JAA as soon as regulations allow.What are your reasons for a post basic PPL on a twin? Is it that you have access to one that you wish to fly? It is important especially with a twin that you do enough time on one to keep current and up to speed in the event of the dreaded EF
Many get a twin rating then hardly touch them again. Once you have it then its another rating to maintain so probably better to leave until you have a need for one.
Pace
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You have to have 70 hours PIC before you can start the course
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It is a reasonably big step up.
Compared with most singles the speed increases by getting on for 50%. If you have not flown a complex single, the complexity increases significantly, and if you have it is still a step up.
So, for an average PPL with low hours and training aircraft experience, you will need to get use to:
1. the scenery going past a lot quicker,
2. the need to think a great deal further head, both in respect of nav and in preparing for joining the circuit,
3. potentially some new elements of managing the aircraft to consider - non welded gear, vp props, synching the props, cowl flaps, greater consideration of general engine management, more complex fuel management, hopefully a decent autopilot,
4. almost certainly a lot heavier handling - sort of driving a bus compared with a car.
In short it all adds up to a significant amount going on at first and undoubtedly the feeling for a while that you are once again well behind the aircraft.
They say, as they would, that you only become a professional pilot once you have an MEP!
If you are flying for fun, have less than a few hundred hours, and arent going to fly 50 hours or more a year - I wouldnt bother, unless you are better than average you will always be behind the aircraft. Get some more time in singles first and you will get a lot more out of twin flying.
Compared with most singles the speed increases by getting on for 50%. If you have not flown a complex single, the complexity increases significantly, and if you have it is still a step up.
So, for an average PPL with low hours and training aircraft experience, you will need to get use to:
1. the scenery going past a lot quicker,
2. the need to think a great deal further head, both in respect of nav and in preparing for joining the circuit,
3. potentially some new elements of managing the aircraft to consider - non welded gear, vp props, synching the props, cowl flaps, greater consideration of general engine management, more complex fuel management, hopefully a decent autopilot,
4. almost certainly a lot heavier handling - sort of driving a bus compared with a car.
In short it all adds up to a significant amount going on at first and undoubtedly the feeling for a while that you are once again well behind the aircraft.
They say, as they would, that you only become a professional pilot once you have an MEP!
If you are flying for fun, have less than a few hundred hours, and arent going to fly 50 hours or more a year - I wouldnt bother, unless you are better than average you will always be behind the aircraft. Get some more time in singles first and you will get a lot more out of twin flying.
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no reason really. Just asking as wanted to get peoples thoughts who have done the rating.
Im no where near close to the point where I would be getting one.
Thanks for replies.
I take it cost rises too?
Im no where near close to the point where I would be getting one.
Thanks for replies.
I take it cost rises too?
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Very rewarding after having flown a bit in singles and when you re ready for the next level.
Actually I d say after your PPL first do the night rating and the IMC.
Then as a next step get your twin rating. First time you'll fly her, she'll feel like a beast, but soon you will learn to control her.
You will fly faster and often higher, above the weather, and with sometimes a higher load.
then your sorties will not be to the next country or off to lunch somewhere but you'll fly to the mediteranean or scandinavia or eastwards to the former east block.....
And yes the cost goes up substantially....
I did mine a couple of years ago at Bonus Aviation at Cranfield and it was a fantastic experience.
Actually I d say after your PPL first do the night rating and the IMC.
Then as a next step get your twin rating. First time you'll fly her, she'll feel like a beast, but soon you will learn to control her.
You will fly faster and often higher, above the weather, and with sometimes a higher load.
then your sorties will not be to the next country or off to lunch somewhere but you'll fly to the mediteranean or scandinavia or eastwards to the former east block.....
And yes the cost goes up substantially....
I did mine a couple of years ago at Bonus Aviation at Cranfield and it was a fantastic experience.
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I take it cost rises too?
Promise I dont mean that in the way it could be taken.
However, you will do well to be flying a twin for much less than £300 an hour however you cost it out.
Fact is there is not much you can do in a twin you cant do in a single.
Something like an SR22 will go as fast if not faster, it will go as high, if not higher, it willbe as comfortable and probably more comfortable.
What it might not do is give you the same level of confidence as a twin at night or over a cold sea, it almost certainly will not lift as much load, and the twin will almost certainly deal with more weather (be it ice or turbulence).
You may also find there are some passengers that will be happy to join you in the twin, but not the single! That could well be a mistake on their part!!
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First time I flew a twin, I was a low houred PPL and radar had advised me of traffic. As I looked, I could see what looked like a Cessna 152 but it was going backwards. I had never seen an aircraft flying backwards before.
As we passed him, I realised the illusion was simply that we were 70 knots faster than he was.
As we passed him, I realised the illusion was simply that we were 70 knots faster than he was.
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Some good advice on this thread, but also some rubbish. Just like always
1) Learning to fly a twin is probably one of the most rewarding things a private pilot will ever do.
2) It would probably be a good idea (as someone else suggested) to get a few hours in a complex single first. Get the hang of ONE constant speed prop, gear which goes up and down PLUS of course the extra speed before transitioning to a twin.
3) Warn the bank manager. Few things burn up cash like a twin - although in my view, few things are as worth the money
4) A twin brings a significant added margin of safety over a single BUT only if you're current. An un-current multi engine pilot is a menace to himself and others.
The best way to keep current is to take your friends shopping in France. It's perfectly legal to cost share (up to a maximum of four ways!) - so get three friends, have a great day out in France and bring back as much cheap wine as the weight and balance calculations allow! :-)
1) Learning to fly a twin is probably one of the most rewarding things a private pilot will ever do.
2) It would probably be a good idea (as someone else suggested) to get a few hours in a complex single first. Get the hang of ONE constant speed prop, gear which goes up and down PLUS of course the extra speed before transitioning to a twin.
3) Warn the bank manager. Few things burn up cash like a twin - although in my view, few things are as worth the money
4) A twin brings a significant added margin of safety over a single BUT only if you're current. An un-current multi engine pilot is a menace to himself and others.
The best way to keep current is to take your friends shopping in France. It's perfectly legal to cost share (up to a maximum of four ways!) - so get three friends, have a great day out in France and bring back as much cheap wine as the weight and balance calculations allow! :-)
I did my twin rating many moons ago in Haverfordwest at the same time as I was doing my IMC. The twin rating was in a lovely Twin Commanche (G-ASSR, now since deceased unfortunately) and the IMC was in a Cessna 150. The difference in speeds and handling were interesting but, because the aircraft were so different, didn't cause any problems if that makes any sense.
It was a great experience being "junior airline pilot" with a handfull of levers and I am really glad I did it. As has been mentioned, maintaining the rating (or whatever it's called these days) is hideously expensive on the following scale:
1. Simple singles = throwing £5 notes on the fire
2. Complex Singles = £10 notes on the fire
3. Twins = £20 notes getting singed
4. Helicopters = £50 notes burning.
I can just afford to be throwing the fivers on the fire so I didn't continue much beyond the rating.
Do it, you will thoroughly enjoy it and it will improve your piloting skills as will doing the IMC.
PS This was my first experience with put-away-wheels and VP props
It was a great experience being "junior airline pilot" with a handfull of levers and I am really glad I did it. As has been mentioned, maintaining the rating (or whatever it's called these days) is hideously expensive on the following scale:
1. Simple singles = throwing £5 notes on the fire
2. Complex Singles = £10 notes on the fire
3. Twins = £20 notes getting singed
4. Helicopters = £50 notes burning.
I can just afford to be throwing the fivers on the fire so I didn't continue much beyond the rating.
Do it, you will thoroughly enjoy it and it will improve your piloting skills as will doing the IMC.
PS This was my first experience with put-away-wheels and VP props
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I only ever pay to fly twins in the USA for that very reason. Last year when it was 2$ to 1£ a TwinStar would cost £115 per hour wet. Slightly more (~£150ish) at the moment but still good value for money.
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I've seen microlight style twins (and flown one) in the USA. Is there a provision to learn in and fly something similar in the UK?
Or is it as I suspect theres not a rule FOR it so you can't!
DO.
Or is it as I suspect theres not a rule FOR it so you can't!
DO.
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Someone mentioned above a rate of £300 an hour.
When you are sat waiting for traffic, or gently going through your engine run-up, remember £5 a minute.
Pretty close to 10p a second to run the engines.
When you are sat waiting for traffic, or gently going through your engine run-up, remember £5 a minute.
Pretty close to 10p a second to run the engines.
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Twins are not for everybody. Neither are turbines or jets.
There is the right plane somewhere for everybody.
It all depends on the purchase budget, running budget, type of sorties one wants to fly, and aptitude.
There is the right plane somewhere for everybody.
It all depends on the purchase budget, running budget, type of sorties one wants to fly, and aptitude.
