Continental 0-200
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Continental 0-200
I reckon I am going to need either a new engine or some overhaul work in around 18 months time. I fly a C150L with a Continental 0-200. I am keen to build up a short list of possible suppliers/overhaulers so that come the day, I have a good idea of what the options are. I live in Oxfordshire. Any thoughts?
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We use Nicholson-McLaren at Woking:
http://www.nicholsonmclaren.co.uk/
There are some closer to you but I wouldn't touch them - and I speak with personal experience and am 'in the trade'.... And I'm not on commission!
PM me if you want some no-goes with reasons.
http://www.nicholsonmclaren.co.uk/
There are some closer to you but I wouldn't touch them - and I speak with personal experience and am 'in the trade'.... And I'm not on commission!
PM me if you want some no-goes with reasons.
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I have a recommendation for an excellent shop in Canada, with whom I've worked for 20 years. My O-200 was zero'd there few years ago, and I'm very happy with it. PM me if you like.
Pilot DAR
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My maintenance company uses Brian Mills (Mercury Aero Engines<IMG style="WIDTH: 0px">) for engine rebuilds. He is based near Cambridge and his 'phone number is 01223 263951. My only personal experience of him was a small job, but that was done well and efficiently. He is, apparently, well experienced with smaller Continental engines.
IIRC: Recently someone (I cannot think who!) told me a story about how they delivered an engine for rebuild to Brian, and Brian suggested he and his mate save money by stripping the engine down themselves. He provided them with protective clothing, tools etc and they simply got on with the job there and then!
(I have no other connection whatsoever with Brian and never met him.)
IIRC: Recently someone (I cannot think who!) told me a story about how they delivered an engine for rebuild to Brian, and Brian suggested he and his mate save money by stripping the engine down themselves. He provided them with protective clothing, tools etc and they simply got on with the job there and then!
(I have no other connection whatsoever with Brian and never met him.)
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Many thanks - all good stuff. Most grateful. If anyone has any other suggestions then please fire away. As I said, I am keen to build up a small database of possible suppliers/overhaulers.
Isenburg Engineering at Southend on Sea
They overhauled our 0-200 (C150H) about 1100 hours ago.
I have found them very helpfull over the phone since the overhaul.
Only 2 minor faults with the engine in this time and I certainly would use them again.
I would not recommend going abroad, at least if you have a problem in the UK you can get at the individuals responsible.
I would not criticise overseas standards as there is good and bad everywhere.
However the following tale might give you something to think about.
The owner of a C172 had his engine overhauled in the states 0-320H2D.
We fitted it for him and rapidly became aware that after the engine had been run it was almost impossible to turn by hand. Once it had cooled it was ok but not good.
We were advised that the most likely cause was that the crankcase halfs had been repaired and the main bearings were being "pinched".
He elected to return it to the USA for a waranty repair. So out it came, back into the box and back to the states.
The overhauler in the states then went bust trapping the engine for over four months.
After finally getting it released he then had to find another overhauler to repair it.
They found that the engine had been stripped down and left to corrode causing major damage. The final bill was huge.
Aside from the cost of having the engine virtually overhauled, freighted and installed twice the real problem was the stress and worry of having an engine several thousand miles away and little abilty to influence the situation.
To end on a good point the second overhauler did a good job and the engine is still running sweetly today.
They overhauled our 0-200 (C150H) about 1100 hours ago.
I have found them very helpfull over the phone since the overhaul.
Only 2 minor faults with the engine in this time and I certainly would use them again.
I would not recommend going abroad, at least if you have a problem in the UK you can get at the individuals responsible.
I would not criticise overseas standards as there is good and bad everywhere.
However the following tale might give you something to think about.
The owner of a C172 had his engine overhauled in the states 0-320H2D.
We fitted it for him and rapidly became aware that after the engine had been run it was almost impossible to turn by hand. Once it had cooled it was ok but not good.
We were advised that the most likely cause was that the crankcase halfs had been repaired and the main bearings were being "pinched".
He elected to return it to the USA for a waranty repair. So out it came, back into the box and back to the states.
The overhauler in the states then went bust trapping the engine for over four months.
After finally getting it released he then had to find another overhauler to repair it.
They found that the engine had been stripped down and left to corrode causing major damage. The final bill was huge.
Aside from the cost of having the engine virtually overhauled, freighted and installed twice the real problem was the stress and worry of having an engine several thousand miles away and little abilty to influence the situation.
To end on a good point the second overhauler did a good job and the engine is still running sweetly today.
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Ronaldson Aviation at Kennington are one of your closest. Good reputation for the quality of the work.
Also worth considering include CFS at Coventry, Airspeed at Derby and Dukeries, Netherthorpe.
Also worth considering include CFS at Coventry, Airspeed at Derby and Dukeries, Netherthorpe.
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FWIW 'Ronaldson' have changed their name - again.....
Companies can 'overhaul' engines if they now have EASA145 approval - no more doing it on someone's 'D' licence.
By overhaul, I mean (as most do) working on the engine to release it for another period of life (1800hrs on an O-200 IIRC). Only the factory can truly 'zero time an engine. Overhaulers release an engine having worked to the maufacturers tolerances and requirements (new bits fitted as required by them etc), so an engine might have 4000hrs on it but it is overhauled to allow it to run for another 2000hrs. Hope that makes sense.
Most engine companies work just on engines, relying on the aircraft's engineers to remove and install the engine.
Companies can 'overhaul' engines if they now have EASA145 approval - no more doing it on someone's 'D' licence.
By overhaul, I mean (as most do) working on the engine to release it for another period of life (1800hrs on an O-200 IIRC). Only the factory can truly 'zero time an engine. Overhaulers release an engine having worked to the maufacturers tolerances and requirements (new bits fitted as required by them etc), so an engine might have 4000hrs on it but it is overhauled to allow it to run for another 2000hrs. Hope that makes sense.
Most engine companies work just on engines, relying on the aircraft's engineers to remove and install the engine.
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This is why if you send an engine to the USA you have to serious due diligence on the company.
It is easy enough to find ones to stay clear of.
It is harder to compile a list "to stay clear of" in the UK because there are far fewer people who one can ask for references, but one quickly finds that some 50% of firms one would not use - on the basis of user feedback alone.
I used Barrett Precision. However, I strongly recommend arranging one's own shipping, to and from their front door. This is true for most American firms - they don't really want to deal with foreigners.
It is easy enough to find ones to stay clear of.
It is harder to compile a list "to stay clear of" in the UK because there are far fewer people who one can ask for references, but one quickly finds that some 50% of firms one would not use - on the basis of user feedback alone.
I used Barrett Precision. However, I strongly recommend arranging one's own shipping, to and from their front door. This is true for most American firms - they don't really want to deal with foreigners.
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May I dive in here and ask a quick question - apologies for going off topic slightly.
A previous poster states "only a factory can zero time an engine". The engine of the aircraft I fly (also a Continental) was, apparently, zero timed after a "top end overhaul" but I'm fairly sure this was not done by the manufacturer.
Therefore, I assume it would actually be misleading to describe the engine hours since top end overhaul as hours since zero-timed??
A previous poster states "only a factory can zero time an engine". The engine of the aircraft I fly (also a Continental) was, apparently, zero timed after a "top end overhaul" but I'm fairly sure this was not done by the manufacturer.
Therefore, I assume it would actually be misleading to describe the engine hours since top end overhaul as hours since zero-timed??
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Zero timed means new fresh empty logbooks.
An aircraft description might say 0 hours SMOH which is not quite the same thing
I don't think actual zero timing means anything to the resale value because nowadays everybody who has done the slightest due diligence (called google.com ) will know that a zero time engine from Lyco can be made up from any collection of old parts, of unknown history.
An aircraft description might say 0 hours SMOH which is not quite the same thing
I don't think actual zero timing means anything to the resale value because nowadays everybody who has done the slightest due diligence (called google.com
) will know that a zero time engine from Lyco can be made up from any collection of old parts, of unknown history.
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A top end overahul is just that - overhaul of the cylinder assemblies, not the bottom end where the rotating bits are. The manufacturer dictates what has to be done to consider the engine overhauled and released for another life period.
If a 2000hr TBO engine had a top end overhaul at 1450hrs then it still has 1450hrs on it and still has 550hrs left until TBO. The log book should reflect this.
If a 2000hr TBO engine had a top end overhaul at 1450hrs then it still has 1450hrs on it and still has 550hrs left until TBO. The log book should reflect this.
My understanding is that there are 2 standards for overhaul and you really need to know what you are paying for as the difference is significant.
Some overhaulers use factory new dimensions when they rebuild the engine. In effect a new engine, but the log books will reflect it's previous history.
Other overhaulers use the overhaul and repair dimensions in the engine overhaul manual.
These allow a wider tolerance and of course the job is cheaper as more parts are reused.
Some overhaulers use factory new dimensions when they rebuild the engine. In effect a new engine, but the log books will reflect it's previous history.
Other overhaulers use the overhaul and repair dimensions in the engine overhaul manual.
These allow a wider tolerance and of course the job is cheaper as more parts are reused.
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You can see two type of total overhaul..
TMOH - TIme since Manufacturer's Overhaul ( Factory Remans)
TSOH - TIme since Overhaul.
Obviously the first means Lycoming/Continential have overhauled the engine in accordance with their specs.
TSOH simply means that the engine has been stripped down and overhaulded in accordance with the approval linked with that company and their signed off maintenance manual.
As always price plays a part. I personaly have organised overhauls with Yorkshire Light Aircraft (RIP - Now Multiflight if they still have an engine shop), CSE, Jade Air, have bought the facturary remans etc. I have only had once bad experience, and that is not in the names listed above. An owner decided to go for cheap overhauls on a PA-31, who overhauled the engine, but not the ancilleries like the shops above. 90 hours after overhaul the turbo caused significant damage to 1 engine. 300 hours later the other engine had had 4 new cylinders and had a continual issuew with oil temp.
TMOH - TIme since Manufacturer's Overhaul ( Factory Remans)
TSOH - TIme since Overhaul.
Obviously the first means Lycoming/Continential have overhauled the engine in accordance with their specs.
TSOH simply means that the engine has been stripped down and overhaulded in accordance with the approval linked with that company and their signed off maintenance manual.
As always price plays a part. I personaly have organised overhauls with Yorkshire Light Aircraft (RIP - Now Multiflight if they still have an engine shop), CSE, Jade Air, have bought the facturary remans etc. I have only had once bad experience, and that is not in the names listed above. An owner decided to go for cheap overhauls on a PA-31, who overhauled the engine, but not the ancilleries like the shops above. 90 hours after overhaul the turbo caused significant damage to 1 engine. 300 hours later the other engine had had 4 new cylinders and had a continual issuew with oil temp.
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I like the manufacturers, but...
Who takes their aircraft back to the airframe manufacturer, when maintenance is required? So why think that the engine manufacturer is the highest form of engine maintenance? Here are some things which a private, smaller engine overhauler could do for you, which an engine manufacturer probably will not:
They might suggest/agree with your request for the use of alternative approved parts, Overhaul your accessories, Repair non engine parts like baffles, Balance and flow match your engine components, Install additional products like heaters, temp probes, oil filter adaptors, Run in your overhauled engine, and report the outcome, Accept as a core, an non OEM part or accesory which is in your engine already, And, perhaps most importantantly, be personally accountable for the work. Try to call the president of Lycoming because you have an enquiry...
There are a lot of high quality overhaul shops, and replacement parts, which are of superior quality to those of the original manufacturer. sending your engine to the OEM may result in a greatly reduced choice for your overhaul.
Pilot DAR
Who takes their aircraft back to the airframe manufacturer, when maintenance is required? So why think that the engine manufacturer is the highest form of engine maintenance? Here are some things which a private, smaller engine overhauler could do for you, which an engine manufacturer probably will not:
They might suggest/agree with your request for the use of alternative approved parts, Overhaul your accessories, Repair non engine parts like baffles, Balance and flow match your engine components, Install additional products like heaters, temp probes, oil filter adaptors, Run in your overhauled engine, and report the outcome, Accept as a core, an non OEM part or accesory which is in your engine already, And, perhaps most importantantly, be personally accountable for the work. Try to call the president of Lycoming because you have an enquiry...
There are a lot of high quality overhaul shops, and replacement parts, which are of superior quality to those of the original manufacturer. sending your engine to the OEM may result in a greatly reduced choice for your overhaul.
Pilot DAR
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Twas I who was allowed to strip and rebuild an 0200 at Brian Mills place.
He does indeed come highly recommended, I doubt that you will get as good a quality overhaul at as good a price anywhere else in UK.
Silvereagle if you are still looking for an 0200, PM me I may be able to help.
He does indeed come highly recommended, I doubt that you will get as good a quality overhaul at as good a price anywhere else in UK.
Silvereagle if you are still looking for an 0200, PM me I may be able to help.