Cirrus SR22 Accident Nov. 16, 2008 off Cherbourg

[IO540]

I know you are all sky gods on here and maybe I'm thick but looking back 20 odd years what would I have done in this situation?
I would probably have crashed!

It will depend on how "clever" you are.

In the countries which don't have an "IMCR", flying "VFR" in IMC is a national pastime; the difference is that most of the pilots don't know how to because there is no legal way they can get the training. They rely on cockpit automation.

It's a lot easier to learn cockpit automation (if you are of a technical mind) than it is to learn hand flying in IMC while doing the radio and everything else.

So a lot of things are possible if you are a clever player.

Having heard some background on the pilot, I suspect this chap wasn't exactly a "clever enough player" for this aircraft...

But it still doesn't add up, why there is the erratic track followed by a very sudden plummet, with no radio comms. Does the data indicate the speeds?

[yawningdog]

A very sad assumption to add to this topic is, IF the BRS was not activated, one could assume that the young chap felt he could sort it out rather than face the consequences. I don't believe he was the owner of this very expensive aircraft. Given the circumstances of the illegal flight, insurance would not have paid up. His parents would have happily taken the financial loss for the love of their son, of course they are now faced with both losses.

This is not just about loss of control in IMC, as with most crashes, it contains a multitude of factors; including non-aviation related influences.

If you have BRS, at least have a set rule as to when you will use it.

[Katamarino]

The report says that he was the owner. Not bad, at age 25.

[IO540]

My info is that he was given the dosh by his parents.

I wonder if we can get input from a real radar ATCO on whether they routinely see such radar tracks from high-end piston GA, in particular SR22s.

None of the ones in radar replays look anything like that, unless somebody is just bimbling.

I would put money on there having been some sort of avionics failure and he was hand flying, possibly on the backup instruments. I am sure that most pilots would not declare any kind of distress if that happened.

[OA32]

I have just read the most recent pages and can say the following.Firstly, he was a nice guy and did own the aircraft, he did his training at Jersey Aero Club and none of his PPL training would have been in a glass cockpit, the club aircraft are all gauges with 2 having Garmin 430's which students frequently have finger trouble with. He had flown up to watch England play at Twickenham the day before and had offered a lift back to 2 of his friends who fortunately declined and flew back commercially.

For those of you wondering about the radar, SSR only tracks can appear to weave regardless of a/c type and aren't as reliable as primary returns, this is the reason that 5 mile spacing is required for SSR only radar separation as opposed to 3 miles for primary radar. As such it cannot be relied upon as an indication of the plane being hand flown as opposed to autopiloted. Also the Avranches radar is some 60 miles away from the accident site which will also affect the recorded track, the same can be said of primary radar for different reasons.

[Fuji Abound]

Indeed there is a bit more too this than would be wise to publish here so it is entirely right and proper the discussion should relate to what we can learn from this event rather than discussion about the personal element and with every respect to the gentlemen concerned.

[IO540]

Well, "personal elements" are relevant if they can help explain what happened.

Lots of very experienced pilots have embarked on obviously illegal or "impossible in the wx" flights, on what turned out to be their final flight.

I now think the plane was indeed on autopilot because the vertical profile is too good for hand flying. I could not hand fly such a constant VS, commencing immediately when the descent starts, if you paid me for it.

Which then leads to the obvious question: why did he plummet?

- autopilot failure (I've had more than a dozen and some can be hard to spot)
- some avionics failure
- finger trouble, causing the autopilot to drop out
- turbulence, causing the autopilot to drop out
- structural failure (somebody worked out his GS at ~ 200kt)

No pilot transmissions appear in the report (which does not mean he did not make any and merely means nothing could be transcribed into text) so whatever happened kept him busy.

[mm_flynn]

Originally Posted by OA32

For those of you wondering about the radar, SSR only tracks can appear to weave regardless of a/c type and aren't as reliable as primary returns, this is the reason that 5 mile spacing is required for SSR only radar separation as opposed to 3 miles for primary radar. As such it cannot be relied upon as an indication of the plane being hand flown as opposed to autopiloted.

OA32,
The bulk of the radar track has these very small deviations (it looks like about 0.05 miles each way - which is entirely consistent with your comment). However, in the final 30-40 seconds there is an initial large heading to the South (it looks like a course change of c.30 degrees and maintained for about 20 seconds.)

It seems a reasonable assumption that the autopilot was turned off at this point (or was operating in an unanticipated way). From watching people fly G1000 aircraft, it would be plausible the descent was mis programmed and the pilot disengaged the autopilot when he realised this.

[Fuji Abound]

- structural failure (somebody worked out his GS at ~ 200kt)

Of course the gs would be irrelevant but unless the as was well in excess of that there is no chance of a structural failure (well i suppose other than some unknown manufacturing defect). This speed is not exceptional for a cirrus.