DA 40 Conversion
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DA 40 Conversion
I friend of mine has just bought a DA 40 with the garmin G1000's. He has asked if I would like to do some flying with him in it. Sounds good to me not quite the sort I normally fly but I would really like to do a coversion first. Has anyone converted to a DA 40 and what sort of time did it take.
Cheers steve
Cheers steve
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The DA40 (I assume with the Thielert) is as easy to fly as any training aircraft, pleasant enough and a good work horse - if a little uninspiring. It is, in mine opinion, short on performance, which it makes up for in good aerodynamics, so once in the cruise it is reasonably quick. However, the aerodynamics don’t help in areas where there is no substitute for power.
There are only two differences to be aware of in operating the Thielert; instead of priming you need to lite the glow plug, and if you loose all electrical power you need to land pretty quickly because the engine will stop.
All in all there is not a great deal to flying a DA40 and a current and experienced pilot should feel comfortable after as little as an hour or two - perhaps just a bit longer if you have never used a stick before.
Turning to the G1000 this is as complex an avionics package as you will find in any light single - more complex than the Avidyne. It is a very capable piece of kit for serious IFR flying, even if the rest of the aircraft is not up to the job.
At its simplest, the primary instruments replicate the six pack. It may take an hour or two to get use to tapes rather than dials, and for some quite a number of hours before you are fully accustom to looking at a tape rather than a dial. However, ignoring the nav aspects you will be flying the instruments in VMC after a few hours.
We then get into the territory of how long is a piece of string. If your aim is to use the full functionality of the system this will take some time. If you are only “doing it” in the aircraft maybe ten hours and with a good instructor. That may seem a lot, but the test is whether you can program a route, select an approach, couple the route and approach to the autopilot and then “on the fly” change the route and the approach. There are a few gotchas as well which is were a good instructor comes into the game - and there are not many of those.
I think you are wasting a lot of time and making the task ten times harder learning this in the cockpit. Garmin provide a really excellent G1000 simulator. A few hours with the simulator on the PC is worth ten in the cockpit and you will have it cracked in no time.
Oh, and the KAP140 autopilot is OK, but not great if the going gets choppy, much as is the 40 which will not always give you the most comfortable of rides.
There are only two differences to be aware of in operating the Thielert; instead of priming you need to lite the glow plug, and if you loose all electrical power you need to land pretty quickly because the engine will stop.
All in all there is not a great deal to flying a DA40 and a current and experienced pilot should feel comfortable after as little as an hour or two - perhaps just a bit longer if you have never used a stick before.
Turning to the G1000 this is as complex an avionics package as you will find in any light single - more complex than the Avidyne. It is a very capable piece of kit for serious IFR flying, even if the rest of the aircraft is not up to the job.
At its simplest, the primary instruments replicate the six pack. It may take an hour or two to get use to tapes rather than dials, and for some quite a number of hours before you are fully accustom to looking at a tape rather than a dial. However, ignoring the nav aspects you will be flying the instruments in VMC after a few hours.
We then get into the territory of how long is a piece of string. If your aim is to use the full functionality of the system this will take some time. If you are only “doing it” in the aircraft maybe ten hours and with a good instructor. That may seem a lot, but the test is whether you can program a route, select an approach, couple the route and approach to the autopilot and then “on the fly” change the route and the approach. There are a few gotchas as well which is were a good instructor comes into the game - and there are not many of those.
I think you are wasting a lot of time and making the task ten times harder learning this in the cockpit. Garmin provide a really excellent G1000 simulator. A few hours with the simulator on the PC is worth ten in the cockpit and you will have it cracked in no time.
Oh, and the KAP140 autopilot is OK, but not great if the going gets choppy, much as is the 40 which will not always give you the most comfortable of rides.
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I second FA's comments. The DA40 is quite easy to fly and if it is a oil burner things couldn't be more simple. You may need to get used to the prop/engine combination, especially if you are the sort of person who plays with the power level a lot on final. It isn't difficult, just slightly different in the way the combination responds to your demands.
Turning to the G1000, you could probably hack the PFD and comm panel in an hour or so. Things get far more interesting when you start playing with the MFD - Personally I think a bit of serious book reading and PC training should be compulsory. OK, you could use it like a GPS496, but then you are wasting a lot of functionality.
Oh yes, there are a couple of gotchas with silly little things like ADF freq selection; just the sort of stuff that would spoil your day during an IR examination.
Turning to the G1000, you could probably hack the PFD and comm panel in an hour or so. Things get far more interesting when you start playing with the MFD - Personally I think a bit of serious book reading and PC training should be compulsory. OK, you could use it like a GPS496, but then you are wasting a lot of functionality.
Oh yes, there are a couple of gotchas with silly little things like ADF freq selection; just the sort of stuff that would spoil your day during an IR examination.
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Sorry a couple more details. The DA 40 in question is IO 360 powered. I will only be doing a type conversion for VFR use only at the moment.
Many thanks
Steve
Many thanks
Steve
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As regards the G1000, LASORS Section F Page 8+9 refer - formal Differences Training is required. Depending on the person and their background this can be fairly quick. Knowing how to change frequencies & basic management on a GNS430/530 or similar helps! Most places can do this training as part of a DA40 conversion anyway, so not an especially big deal.
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I'm currently flying an RV 6 so hopefully my feet are working ok. I did do some of my PPL in a PA 28 which had a 430 in it so I can do the basics. I remember downloading a trainer for the 430, is there something similar for the G1000?
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DA40 G1000 conversion
Steve,
I just did the conversion (a month ago) to a DA40-180 with G1000, from a PA28-180. I have now done 70 hours in the DA40.
A few things I have found:
(1) Plenty of power from the IO360 and with the slippery wings
(2) You need to really know the manifold pressure settings, prop speeds, flap extension speeds (1st and 2nd stage) and landing speeds, as per normal - but I found that you often don't have much time on climb-out and as soon as you are 500ft AGL MP/prop tp 25.0/2500 and take-off flap out.
(3) care on approach and circuit not to overspeed the first stage of flaps (108kts on my aircraft) and particularly landing flaps (91 kts). I found because of this I would tend to put the last stage of flaps in only when on very short final
(4) if you have a strong crosswind, I found that it is better to use no flap and keep the speed up if you have the runway length
(5) the most important difference though is the landing: much flatter than a PA28 and you don't pull back like you do in a PA28 - or if you do, you will balloon/float.
(6) the castoring nose-wheel can take some getting used to. It is easy to use the brakes to control direction on the ground, but I think better to use the rudder but this of course relies on a bit of airflow over the rudder (i.e. ground speed) and using pretty much full rudder.
(7) the G1000 is wonderful: I used the one with the GFC700 autopilot which works great even in quite strong turbulence (enough to lift me out of the seat and bang my headset on the ceiling). BUT the G1000 is complex and easy to get messed up and spend your time looking down to try to sort out what you are doing.. not ideal at 140kts. You need to get to grips with the FPL and Direct to buttons in particular and how to adjust the flightplan to change the magenta line: in my experience the functions of the buttons CLR and ENT and the rotating knobs (inner and outer) are not intuitive to begin with, although fine once you are used to them.
Also, be careful of the autopilot functions, so understand the various modes to get the right VS in particular (easy to request too much so that the aircraft speed reduces quickly or gradually to stall speed) and also watch that if you are too far off track the autopilot will not capture in NAV mode so need to use HDG mode to get to the track.
And finally, even when in NAV mode I suggest you frequently press the HDG knob, so that the HDG bug is on your track, as there are often times you will need to switch the CDI/HSI and flipping to HDG mode keeps you on-track while you do this.
For the G1000 you can get a PC trainer CD free from Garmin UK (just phone them and ask), which is somewhat useful. Also for the G1000 I suggest that you fly for a few hours with someone else being mainly responsible for the flying and lookout (and taking over at any point when you get mixed up) so that you can get used to pressing the right buttons on the G1000.
I just did the conversion (a month ago) to a DA40-180 with G1000, from a PA28-180. I have now done 70 hours in the DA40.
A few things I have found:
(1) Plenty of power from the IO360 and with the slippery wings
(2) You need to really know the manifold pressure settings, prop speeds, flap extension speeds (1st and 2nd stage) and landing speeds, as per normal - but I found that you often don't have much time on climb-out and as soon as you are 500ft AGL MP/prop tp 25.0/2500 and take-off flap out.
(3) care on approach and circuit not to overspeed the first stage of flaps (108kts on my aircraft) and particularly landing flaps (91 kts). I found because of this I would tend to put the last stage of flaps in only when on very short final
(4) if you have a strong crosswind, I found that it is better to use no flap and keep the speed up if you have the runway length
(5) the most important difference though is the landing: much flatter than a PA28 and you don't pull back like you do in a PA28 - or if you do, you will balloon/float.
(6) the castoring nose-wheel can take some getting used to. It is easy to use the brakes to control direction on the ground, but I think better to use the rudder but this of course relies on a bit of airflow over the rudder (i.e. ground speed) and using pretty much full rudder.
(7) the G1000 is wonderful: I used the one with the GFC700 autopilot which works great even in quite strong turbulence (enough to lift me out of the seat and bang my headset on the ceiling). BUT the G1000 is complex and easy to get messed up and spend your time looking down to try to sort out what you are doing.. not ideal at 140kts. You need to get to grips with the FPL and Direct to buttons in particular and how to adjust the flightplan to change the magenta line: in my experience the functions of the buttons CLR and ENT and the rotating knobs (inner and outer) are not intuitive to begin with, although fine once you are used to them.
Also, be careful of the autopilot functions, so understand the various modes to get the right VS in particular (easy to request too much so that the aircraft speed reduces quickly or gradually to stall speed) and also watch that if you are too far off track the autopilot will not capture in NAV mode so need to use HDG mode to get to the track.
And finally, even when in NAV mode I suggest you frequently press the HDG knob, so that the HDG bug is on your track, as there are often times you will need to switch the CDI/HSI and flipping to HDG mode keeps you on-track while you do this.
For the G1000 you can get a PC trainer CD free from Garmin UK (just phone them and ask), which is somewhat useful. Also for the G1000 I suggest that you fly for a few hours with someone else being mainly responsible for the flying and lookout (and taking over at any point when you get mixed up) so that you can get used to pressing the right buttons on the G1000.
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(6) the castoring nose-wheel can take some getting used to. It is easy to use the brakes to control direction on the ground, but I think better to use the rudder but this of course relies on a bit of airflow over the rudder (i.e. ground speed) and using pretty much full rudder.
I used the one with the GFC700 autopilot which works great even in quite strong turbulence (enough to lift me out of the seat and bang my headset on the ceiling).
An other thing I've found with the DA-40 TDI airframe is that once you get below 70 knots on final, the sink rate is much, much higher and takes almost full power to recover.
Oh, and in the cruise you might want to keep your feet lightly on the footrests instead of flat on the floor. There's not much friction in the rudder assembly (compared to aircraft with a steerable nosewheel) and if you just let the aircraft fly itself it gets into a Dutch-roll kind-of oscillation. Not much, not divergent and not dangerous, but just enough to be uncomfortable. Adding a little friction to the rudder system by keeping your feet on the pedals solves this. (And this also applies with the A/P engaged.)
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Thanks very much for the info.
My friend has already had a few lessons in a deisel and did mention to me about how flat they land. That'll be a contrast for me as 3 pointing the RV is anything but flat.
TDbristol, did you go from a deisel version to the 180 or have you done the 70 hours in a month?
My friend has already had a few lessons in a deisel and did mention to me about how flat they land. That'll be a contrast for me as 3 pointing the RV is anything but flat.
TDbristol, did you go from a deisel version to the 180 or have you done the 70 hours in a month?
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(5) the most important difference though is the landing: much flatter than a PA28 and you don't pull back like you do in a PA28 - or if you do, you will balloon/float.
Having flown both variants and PA28s I think this is a common illusion.
The canopy and the view from the Diamond is very different and leads one to believe the landing is flatter.
In fact the Diamond will land very nicely nose high with the nosewheel kept off the runway until eventually with the stick fully back it has no option but to find the concrete.
I do agree with your other comments.
