Airport security
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Airport security
Is anyone else experiencing serious difficulties with new EU airport security regulations which require all people going airside - including friends/family being taken flying by PPLs, and trial flying lesson students - to have an official ID pass issued? If implemented it will close us down so I would be very interested in other people's experiences.
NS
NS
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Utterly brainless idiots!
I regret to say that UK "airport security" defies any common sense, logic, common courtesy and usual fails to enhance security.
It is a job creation plan for the otherwise unemployable run by half wits who could not get a job with the elf & safety.
They are on an ego trip the size of a planet just because anyone who questions there actions is instantly inconvenienced beyond all reason and treated like a criminal, They are also judge and jury in all matters so even polite complaint via the official channels will be brushed aside even if they acknowledge the communication in the first place.
My advice is to avoid these half witted egomaniacs at all costs as it is imposable to reason with these people simply because they don't have the intelligence to engage in an adult conversation.
Without doubt the UK security is the worst run in the world and reflects the government's attitude to the citizens of the UK and is just the tip of the iceberg that includes ID cards and Internet snooping.
By now you might have guessed that I don't like these people!
It is a job creation plan for the otherwise unemployable run by half wits who could not get a job with the elf & safety.
They are on an ego trip the size of a planet just because anyone who questions there actions is instantly inconvenienced beyond all reason and treated like a criminal, They are also judge and jury in all matters so even polite complaint via the official channels will be brushed aside even if they acknowledge the communication in the first place.
My advice is to avoid these half witted egomaniacs at all costs as it is imposable to reason with these people simply because they don't have the intelligence to engage in an adult conversation.
Without doubt the UK security is the worst run in the world and reflects the government's attitude to the citizens of the UK and is just the tip of the iceberg that includes ID cards and Internet snooping.
By now you might have guessed that I don't like these people!
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Just to be precise, is that EU or UK regulations you are talking about? There is nothing like that required or in the plans in the continent, as far as I'm aware. Pilot or not, you do need a valid reason to go airside (showing your ride to mates won't do it) and everyone going through needs to have ID, but there is no need whatsoever for an airport pass or anything like that (other than in my area if you have one you get free parking).
btw, the reason those rules are still in place is because not enough people challenge them. Some are patently illegal to start with, and I bet most wouldn't stand up to scrutiny in court.
btw, the reason those rules are still in place is because not enough people challenge them. Some are patently illegal to start with, and I bet most wouldn't stand up to scrutiny in court.
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A visitor pass is acceptable. Make a few, laminate them and put 'em on a bit of ribbon!!
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Whirls
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My flying club operates from an international airport - Rotterdam in fact. We've had to implement all sorts of security regulations and they've been very pragmatic about it.
As others have said, as pilot you've got to identify your reason for being airside. That is accomplished, in our case, by showing your pilots license plus (because the pilot license doesn't have a picture) some sort of picture ID - your passport in most cases.
The passengers need to be accompanied by the pilot, and need to be able to show ID - passport again.
A few selected individuals of our club, instructors mostly, will be eligible for an airport pass which they can use instead of their license/passport combo. The airport authorities decided not to give each of the 1000+ private pilots at Rotterdam an airport pass simply because the administration involved would be overwhelming. And I don't believe anybody ever suggested the idea of one-time passengers to be issued a pass.
In the Netherlands, the airport pass is only issued after a background check by the MIVD - the Dutch Secret Service This background check, plus the issue fee of the pass, would be something like 70 euros minimum and that's actually fairly cheap, as far as I'm concerned. Nevertheless, with something like 600 members in my flying club alone it would be a severe drain on resources.
As others have said - forcing everybody who goes airside onto an airport ID pass is NOT what the EU regulations say. Yes, you need to prove you have business airside, and you need an official ID, but an airport pass is not the only means of achieving that goal.
As others have said, as pilot you've got to identify your reason for being airside. That is accomplished, in our case, by showing your pilots license plus (because the pilot license doesn't have a picture) some sort of picture ID - your passport in most cases.
The passengers need to be accompanied by the pilot, and need to be able to show ID - passport again.
A few selected individuals of our club, instructors mostly, will be eligible for an airport pass which they can use instead of their license/passport combo. The airport authorities decided not to give each of the 1000+ private pilots at Rotterdam an airport pass simply because the administration involved would be overwhelming. And I don't believe anybody ever suggested the idea of one-time passengers to be issued a pass.
In the Netherlands, the airport pass is only issued after a background check by the MIVD - the Dutch Secret Service This background check, plus the issue fee of the pass, would be something like 70 euros minimum and that's actually fairly cheap, as far as I'm concerned. Nevertheless, with something like 600 members in my flying club alone it would be a severe drain on resources.
As others have said - forcing everybody who goes airside onto an airport ID pass is NOT what the EU regulations say. Yes, you need to prove you have business airside, and you need an official ID, but an airport pass is not the only means of achieving that goal.
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I fly from an international airport and regularly take passengers. I use an AOPA aircrew card for ID and have never had passengers asked for ID. If they are with me, and I am an OK guy, then that is good enough!
Whereabouts are we actually talking about here?
Okay, in my day-job, I spend a certain amount of time around or flying in big aeroplanes. For that I've been security checked and issued with a pass, as have all the people I work with. In this post 9/11 world, that's fair enough.
For my private flying however, I've once been asked for a passport photocopy for some professional training, and Blackpool airport has insisted upon seeing my licence before they'd allow me back to my aircraft.
But apart from that, I really can't think of anywhere, of a variety of smaller and larger airports who have imposed anything more on me than a requirement to wear hi-viz jacket.
If there are a minority of UK airports imposing these sort of silly requirements, let's name them. But, I really don't believe that it's anything like a majority.
G
Okay, in my day-job, I spend a certain amount of time around or flying in big aeroplanes. For that I've been security checked and issued with a pass, as have all the people I work with. In this post 9/11 world, that's fair enough.
For my private flying however, I've once been asked for a passport photocopy for some professional training, and Blackpool airport has insisted upon seeing my licence before they'd allow me back to my aircraft.
But apart from that, I really can't think of anywhere, of a variety of smaller and larger airports who have imposed anything more on me than a requirement to wear hi-viz jacket.
If there are a minority of UK airports imposing these sort of silly requirements, let's name them. But, I really don't believe that it's anything like a majority.
G
Since when is showing one's friends your aircraft not a valid reason? What sort of police state are you living in when an innocent act such as that is deemed to be a terrorist act? Because that's the implicit assumption in dissallowing the activity. What next? Showing off your new sports car isn't allowed because your friends might consider using it as a get away vehicle?
And just what does showing an ID achieve on it own? Proving that you are 'you' doesn't enhance security if that's all that happens. So, someone looks at whatever the ID is, agrees you're 'you' and..........then what? Does the checker have a black list of nefarious baddies that they use to compare to your name? No, of course not. Nor do they have the opposite - a white list. That would be even more cumbersome and, once hacked, gives serious bad guys a great way to pass through the system relatively unaccosted (but doesn't stop the UK gov. trying to implement one anyway with its ID card
).
Indeed, whitelists & blacklists don't even have to be hacked. They can be subverted by gaming the system. Send enough lackies through - especially sleepers or new recruits who have never previously meritted the blacklist - and you'll soon have a whitelisted cadre who are then deemed to be 'OK'. Until proven otherwise, of course, but hindsight won't be able to prevent the history they make. Have enough cannon fodder and you can even probe the security system with the whitelisted minions to find what equipment can be passed through and/or where the likelyhood of getting caught is the least.
By the way, none of this apparent Fort Knox-ian** security system prevents someone using wire clippers in some dark corner of the airfield and crawling across the grass until they're in a suitable place to walk around as if they belong there with their laser printed fake airport ID boldly on display.
I can think of even easier ways to circumvent this security theatre so no doubt those with nefarious intent and resources are equally capable. Just because they're nasty doesn't mean they're stupid.
**If Will S. could invent words then so can I
And just what does showing an ID achieve on it own? Proving that you are 'you' doesn't enhance security if that's all that happens. So, someone looks at whatever the ID is, agrees you're 'you' and..........then what? Does the checker have a black list of nefarious baddies that they use to compare to your name? No, of course not. Nor do they have the opposite - a white list. That would be even more cumbersome and, once hacked, gives serious bad guys a great way to pass through the system relatively unaccosted (but doesn't stop the UK gov. trying to implement one anyway with its ID card
). Indeed, whitelists & blacklists don't even have to be hacked. They can be subverted by gaming the system. Send enough lackies through - especially sleepers or new recruits who have never previously meritted the blacklist - and you'll soon have a whitelisted cadre who are then deemed to be 'OK'. Until proven otherwise, of course, but hindsight won't be able to prevent the history they make. Have enough cannon fodder and you can even probe the security system with the whitelisted minions to find what equipment can be passed through and/or where the likelyhood of getting caught is the least.
By the way, none of this apparent Fort Knox-ian** security system prevents someone using wire clippers in some dark corner of the airfield and crawling across the grass until they're in a suitable place to walk around as if they belong there with their laser printed fake airport ID boldly on display.
I can think of even easier ways to circumvent this security theatre so no doubt those with nefarious intent and resources are equally capable. Just because they're nasty doesn't mean they're stupid.
**If Will S. could invent words then so can I
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Britain does have a peculiar tendency to generate stupid pointless jobs and fill them with people who take themselves really seriously (but never realise they are pointless, or that a pragmatic approach is called for).
Look at the way ISO9000 has been embraced, right down to trade suppliers of bog rolls.
The other day we got a health and safety inspection at work. I have only a small place, 3 people total, 2 exit doors and about 10 windows. The arrogant idiot, straight out of a TV comedy (Capt Manwaring of Dad's Army) and holding the obligatory clipboard, said "where is the fire escape"? Zero sense of humour and zero latitude.
I am currently based at an airport where there is no real security (although they like to think so) so things are OK. But it could get much worse - it could be Norwich, where they confiscate your toothpaste
The security bill at Norwich must be in £ millions just on salaries. Anybody wanting to get in can just climb over the fence.
I am reliably informed that wearing a pilot uniform is highly effective in this respect. A shame it makes one look like a right d*ck (in the UK).
Look at the way ISO9000 has been embraced, right down to trade suppliers of bog rolls.
The other day we got a health and safety inspection at work. I have only a small place, 3 people total, 2 exit doors and about 10 windows. The arrogant idiot, straight out of a TV comedy (Capt Manwaring of Dad's Army) and holding the obligatory clipboard, said "where is the fire escape"? Zero sense of humour and zero latitude.
I am currently based at an airport where there is no real security (although they like to think so) so things are OK. But it could get much worse - it could be Norwich, where they confiscate your toothpaste
The security bill at Norwich must be in £ millions just on salaries. Anybody wanting to get in can just climb over the fence.I am reliably informed that wearing a pilot uniform is highly effective in this respect. A shame it makes one look like a right d*ck (in the UK).
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NS,
I now remember that we had a presentation by the Head of Security from Rotterdam Airport, at our flying club a while ago, detailing the different zones they have divided "airside" into, the different rules that apply in these different zones and how they relate to the EU regulations. I have his presentation if you're interested. PM me if you'd like to see it.
I now remember that we had a presentation by the Head of Security from Rotterdam Airport, at our flying club a while ago, detailing the different zones they have divided "airside" into, the different rules that apply in these different zones and how they relate to the EU regulations. I have his presentation if you're interested. PM me if you'd like to see it.
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IO540
I can assure you that in the UK being in a pilot uniform is only going to encourage the pond life that run security to make your life hell, they like nothing better than to turn out the contents of a pilots (preferably a captain) bag and make a real song and dance about finding the smallest item that they can deem to be prohibited (usually only by local rules not DfT rules)
In short the more status a person has the more they enjoy making life difficult.
In short the more status a person has the more they enjoy making life difficult.
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Tins,
Since I am talking about relatively large public transport airports here, I actually find it sensible that they would want to restrict access to a controlled and dangerous work area. Primarily it is not about "terrorism" or any of that bollocks, but about safety and efficiency.
Some time ago I was talking to the policeman who controls crew access airside (a proper police officer with real training and authority, and yes, we do usually have separate crew channels in the continent), and he was telling me about the number of spotters who try to sneak in to get a nice pic (fair enough) and end up wandering into dangerous areas and placing themselves at risk. This guy was very pragmatic about it, and genuinely concerned with everyone's wellbeing rather than some nonsense "security" regulation. Mind you, he'd been working there for the last 20 years, so not exactly clueless.
Since when is showing one's friends your aircraft not a valid reason?
Some time ago I was talking to the policeman who controls crew access airside (a proper police officer with real training and authority, and yes, we do usually have separate crew channels in the continent), and he was telling me about the number of spotters who try to sneak in to get a nice pic (fair enough) and end up wandering into dangerous areas and placing themselves at risk. This guy was very pragmatic about it, and genuinely concerned with everyone's wellbeing rather than some nonsense "security" regulation. Mind you, he'd been working there for the last 20 years, so not exactly clueless.
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LH2
That can't be a UK airport ............. no airport in the UK pays more than minimum wage for the security numptys.
However I do take your point about airside safety but that can be accomplished without all the stupidity that UK airports engage in
However I do take your point about airside safety but that can be accomplished without all the stupidity that UK airports engage in
Not quite true, BAA actually pay security staff pretty well, around the 20k mark or more if full time. I agree with the rest of what is said however, and never try using a uniform to get through a UK airport, as mentioned correctly above, they will single you out for the rubber glove treatment, especially Gatwick...toss
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Maybe I am naive but I confess to being gobsmacked that, if what all of you contributors on here say is true, there is no basis for what we are being asked to do. But it comes (2nd hand) from the Department for Transport inspector responsible for the airport!
NS
NS
It's safety guys, which is never a bad thing. However how can it be safer for the inhabitants of an inbound aircraft to walk airside prior to any checks, than anyone outbound having to justify their existence prior to gaining access to their aircraft? I suspect the motivation for their job goes beyond the financial aspect!
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youngskywalker
Gatwick is not the worst by far BHX & MAN Are quite bad but the prize for the most stupid security is without doubt STN "you cant take a camara airside mate" but just a few steps past security I could buy one in Boots!.
As to a complaint at STN I had to report two members of security for aggressive behavior and did not even get an acknowledgement of this for three months.
rata2e
UK security has nothing to do with safety, it is about protecting the government and the civil service from fleet street.
Gatwick is not the worst by far BHX & MAN Are quite bad but the prize for the most stupid security is without doubt STN "you cant take a camara airside mate" but just a few steps past security I could buy one in Boots!.
As to a complaint at STN I had to report two members of security for aggressive behavior and did not even get an acknowledgement of this for three months.
rata2e
UK security has nothing to do with safety, it is about protecting the government and the civil service from fleet street.
