Aircraft ditched off Whitby, Teeside UK
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Must say even I am a little shocked by the instant jump to suicide from what seems like an engine failure. The reports from eyewitness state the aircraft was silent when it went overhead and hit the water. The pilot made a Mayday call. Seems like he was possibly injured during the ditching, incapacitated and unable to self assist. I have seen nothing that from the accident reports that suggest otherwise so far so I think the giant leaps some are making on here are a little unnecessary.
By all means healthy speculation on the cause where there is visible evidence is worth discussing as it may save another life, but wild speculation?
By all means healthy speculation on the cause where there is visible evidence is worth discussing as it may save another life, but wild speculation?
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am I next . . . . . . ?
so I think the giant leaps some are making on here are a little unnecessary. . . . . . . . . . . but wild speculation ?
Perhaps the mods should ban me from this too . . . . . after all I echoed the first suggestion from FOK within just a few minutes. My defence to that is that it is within my professional training to consider all possibilities when anything aviation-related goes wrong.
Sympathies and condolences have already been expressed, I will not labour the point by repeating mine.
I wonder if there is time for a hearty breakfast first . . . . ?
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OK, so lets stay with the wild speculation. We currently have the options of suicide and mechanical failure.
1. Suicide - Anyone got any evidence of this other than some anecdotal evidence that someone used an aircraft for suicide in the past? Now if someone is going to post on here that they have solid proof that the victim had grounds to do themselves in I personally see little room for further speculation on that front?
2. Mechanical failure - Mayday called, aircraft silent in the glide before ditching. How experienced was the pilot, what age and state was the aircraft?
3. Open to more speculation.
1. Suicide - Anyone got any evidence of this other than some anecdotal evidence that someone used an aircraft for suicide in the past? Now if someone is going to post on here that they have solid proof that the victim had grounds to do themselves in I personally see little room for further speculation on that front?
2. Mechanical failure - Mayday called, aircraft silent in the glide before ditching. How experienced was the pilot, what age and state was the aircraft?
3. Open to more speculation.
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No, don't specualte on this one, start a new thread for reasons why an aeroplane can suddenly drop out of the sky.
I am all for healthy debate so go and do it on another thread please.
I am all for healthy debate so go and do it on another thread please.
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why PPRuNE . . . . . . . ?
No, don't speculate on this one, start a new thread
been reported hitherto. Thanks
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I have no issue discussing stuff like this, in an informed way, but who the heck came up with the idea of ppossible suicuide? What goes up must come down after all and it is far easier to come down that go up in a light aeroplane......E.g. Engine fails, stretch the glide, spin, whatever....
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spicejetter
Why exactly would you want to get 'familiar' with an accident in which two people lost their lives if you had nothing whatsoever to do with the incident?
SITW
Why exactly would you want to get 'familiar' with an accident in which two people lost their lives if you had nothing whatsoever to do with the incident?
SITW
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englishal
Apparantly there has been several instances of people using aeroplanes as a means of taking their own lives, including a previous incidence with a PA38.
Rightly or wrongly this was suggested earlier in this thread and the proposer seems to have paid the price for that suggestion?!
SITW
Apparantly there has been several instances of people using aeroplanes as a means of taking their own lives, including a previous incidence with a PA38.
Rightly or wrongly this was suggested earlier in this thread and the proposer seems to have paid the price for that suggestion?!
SITW
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Whenever there is a fatal accident there seems to be a pattern both here - and at the "other place" .
1. News report which has sparse details.
2. Sadness expressed and condolences to family.
3. Speculation as to the cause.
4. People upset that such speculation is insensitive.
3 and 4 take up 95% of the posts.
I suppose this is to be expected. A fatal accident is indeed big news for all of us in GA. We like to think that we can safely assume that our little aeroplanes won't suddenly go into a dive and crash into the sea.
I suspect that what most of us would like is a bit more real information. Have there been similar accidents in the past? Has anyone experience problems (e.g severe turbulence) when flying in similar terrain? Those who knew the pilot - without identifying the individual - how experienced pilot was he? Was he familiar with PA-38s? Is there a possibility the aircraft went into a spin?
1. News report which has sparse details.
2. Sadness expressed and condolences to family.
3. Speculation as to the cause.
4. People upset that such speculation is insensitive.
3 and 4 take up 95% of the posts.
I suppose this is to be expected. A fatal accident is indeed big news for all of us in GA. We like to think that we can safely assume that our little aeroplanes won't suddenly go into a dive and crash into the sea.
I suspect that what most of us would like is a bit more real information. Have there been similar accidents in the past? Has anyone experience problems (e.g severe turbulence) when flying in similar terrain? Those who knew the pilot - without identifying the individual - how experienced pilot was he? Was he familiar with PA-38s? Is there a possibility the aircraft went into a spin?
Hovering AND talking
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Why exactly would you want to get 'familiar' with an accident in which two people lost their lives if you had nothing whatsoever to do with the incident?
Nothing wrong with reading them and possibly something from which we can all learn so I would imagine that's why spicejetter would want the details and/or link.
Cheers
Whirls
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Gentlemen please. The pilot concerned was a friend within the industry and I would be flabbergasted if he even considered taking his life. He had a good career, lovely close family and a beautiful home. He had only just completed his PPL. He was a lovely man who was liked by many in our industry.
For those of you with **** all else to do than speculate and distribute your drivel, try this for size......inexperienced PPL, Tomahawk, engine failure? / or other emergency situation......not rocket science is it!
AMEandPPL - Who asked you to consider anything? - If you were that "professional" you would gather ALL the facts first (if asked to do so) and weigh them up in a considerate and thoughtful manner.Not spout off your ill informed rhetoric and theories to anyone that will listen. Spare a thought for the family, and many friends that he had within the industry, and try to resist suggesting ridiculous theories that have no basis whatsoever.
For those of you with **** all else to do than speculate and distribute your drivel, try this for size......inexperienced PPL, Tomahawk, engine failure? / or other emergency situation......not rocket science is it!
My defence to that is that it is within my professional training to consider all possibilities when anything aviation-related goes wrong.
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the Liverpool accident . . . . . . . .
spicejetter This is what you are looking for :
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources/G-BJYG.pdf
By a very strange, almost freakish, coincidence, I have had in my office this morning for Class 2 renewal a PPL who flies from Liverpool and knew the aircraft concerned, and the couple who died.
I have learned a very great deal today which I did not know before, but out of respect for the majority of the posters on here I'll keep it to myself.
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources/G-BJYG.pdf
By a very strange, almost freakish, coincidence, I have had in my office this morning for Class 2 renewal a PPL who flies from Liverpool and knew the aircraft concerned, and the couple who died.
I have learned a very great deal today which I did not know before, but out of respect for the majority of the posters on here I'll keep it to myself.
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Hmmm . . . . . . . .
Not spout off your ill informed rhetoric and theories to anyone that will listen
I'll see myself out . . . . . . . . . after perusing the ads down the left side . . .
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AMEandPPL and Spicejetter
I have read the link AIB report.
now, my native language is not english, but in that flight too (!), I understand suicide is only speculation, as there is no mentionning of it in the AIB report.
Unknown water in the tank (kids sabotage?, my question), previous unexplained engine failure, possible stall warner fuse issue.
So where does all this talk come from? I am asking purely from a curiosity point of view.
Committing suicide is generally a very sad thing to happen, with total disregard for those remaining (!!!!!) and we as pilots should not engage in using our planes for that!
now, my native language is not english, but in that flight too (!), I understand suicide is only speculation, as there is no mentionning of it in the AIB report.
Unknown water in the tank (kids sabotage?, my question), previous unexplained engine failure, possible stall warner fuse issue.
So where does all this talk come from? I am asking purely from a curiosity point of view.
Committing suicide is generally a very sad thing to happen, with total disregard for those remaining (!!!!!) and we as pilots should not engage in using our planes for that!
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what does the "rating" mean . . . . . . ?
A question I have wanted to ask for many months; now the subject arises in relation to this particular thread, so here goes.
On each forum index page is a column headed "rating", in (some of) which graphics of arms appear, with different numbers of "seniority" type stripes. Each also has a hand with a thumb pointing either upwards, sideways or downwards.
What do these mean ?
Who decides on the numbers of stripes depicted ?
Who decides on the direction of the thumb ?
At the time of writing this, for this thread the seniority is only one stripe, and the thumb is down. What does this tell us ?
I am pretty sure that there will be many PPRuNers with much more experience than I who will be able to explain all !
VERY interesting ! ! - since posting this the arm has now got three stripes, and the thumb is pointing sideways ! ! What did I do or say ?
On each forum index page is a column headed "rating", in (some of) which graphics of arms appear, with different numbers of "seniority" type stripes. Each also has a hand with a thumb pointing either upwards, sideways or downwards.
What do these mean ?
Who decides on the numbers of stripes depicted ?
Who decides on the direction of the thumb ?
At the time of writing this, for this thread the seniority is only one stripe, and the thumb is down. What does this tell us ?
I am pretty sure that there will be many PPRuNers with much more experience than I who will be able to explain all !
VERY interesting ! ! - since posting this the arm has now got three stripes, and the thumb is pointing sideways ! ! What did I do or say ?
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clicking on the arrow means you can give stars ("stripes") to any thread.
I guess it aggregates the votes of the menbers, it's like the Eurovision song contest..... Vote p[ositive for your friends, negative for those you dislike.
Assuming some people just luvvvvvv to vote and others just read, it probably doesn t mean much, just the average opinion of those who like to vote.....
I guess it aggregates the votes of the menbers, it's like the Eurovision song contest..... Vote p[ositive for your friends, negative for those you dislike.
Assuming some people just luvvvvvv to vote and others just read, it probably doesn t mean much, just the average opinion of those who like to vote.....
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improving "rating" . . . . . . . . !
vanHorck - Thanks for that ! I've learned something very useful today ! I see that this thread is now 4 stripes, and thumbs up !
On a more serious note, and relating to our posts earlier today, it is true that the AAIB report on the Liverpool PA28 accident did not mention the dreaded "S" word. Nor, indeed, did the Coroner at the inquest on the two victims of that tragedy - the official verdict was "accidental".
But many folk in the GA flying scene around EGGP believe differently. I have heard things this morning which have really shocked me. But in the present climate here it would not be sensible to discuss any more.
"In the past, best left there"
On a more serious note, and relating to our posts earlier today, it is true that the AAIB report on the Liverpool PA28 accident did not mention the dreaded "S" word. Nor, indeed, did the Coroner at the inquest on the two victims of that tragedy - the official verdict was "accidental".
But many folk in the GA flying scene around EGGP believe differently. I have heard things this morning which have really shocked me. But in the present climate here it would not be sensible to discuss any more.
"In the past, best left there"