Best place to start?
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Best place to start?
Hi, newbie here so, heres my first post!
Wanting to do my PPL eventually, in the midst of completing my IT course and hope to get a very well paid IT job that will pay for my training.
Had a trial flying lesson, and loved it sooo much, that i now want to train for my PPL and get my license with hope of one day expanding to other qualifications and get other licenses, but anyway one step at a time!
Looking at starting lessons next year some time, more or less will be next autumn i recon.
I live near Southend in Essex, and i don't drive, so i'm thinking Southend Flying Club is the best option, but there's something about the club that i am not too sure of, they seem to be a bit pricey and expensive, but i dont know if thats because the flying club is literally in Southend Regional Airport, Southend Airport is really easy for me to access and it makes sense to do it there as its accessible, but the price of the PPL is a little steep at the cost of over £7000, for the full course (all inclusive) and i need to buy my pilot gear extra to that.
On the other hand, i am really interested in Stapleford Flying Club. Me and my dad used to go there all the time when i was younger, and pop in for a drink and used to chat to pilots, watch the aircraft takeoff and land and just have a good nose around really. They seem friendly and its a nice little airstrip and has some really good facilities. I had my trial flying lesson there, took off a flew over my house too which was really good.
Stapleford offers the full PPL for just over £6500 (all inclusive) saving me £500 compared to Southend Flying Club, which is a big saving. I like Stapleford and id be happy to do flying lessons there (part time, weekends etc). But Stapleford is really awkward to access, as i can remember being near to motorways, no busses, trains but really out the way, its quite a green but nice area, but just so hard to access considering i dont drive.
So this lead me to think of London, i know London well, i used to live there, get a travel card and you can go anywhere, but i dont know the airstrips or flying clubs of london if any, i dont know if they are any dearer or any easier to access by public transport. Im really looking to find the most accessible flying club to do my lessons, but i just want value for money, im also (if the price is right) willing to pay all the fees upfront to make a further saving too, but this will prolong the flying lessons maybe back another year, but thinking this maybe worth it.
For now, i managed to buy from Ebay a good detailed book on the cessna 152 , quite technical but very detailed and interesting to read, also bought the Trevor Thom Flying Manuals 1-5 (1989 addition from ebay for about £3 a book) i know that they are out dated, but atleast i will get a very good and clear idea of the principles of flight, the flying, law, navigation, human factors etc before i actually go and buy the Latest Flying Manuals when i do the PPL course, for £15 for a set of Trevor Thom books is quite good value i think (even though they are old).
So the question is, really what do you think the best flight school is in London or Essex, is there any really good accessible flying schools around, or any cheap flying schools?
Am i aiming in the right direction do you think?
Any ideas for training etc, is there anything in the books i bought that i can study to get me a head start?
Id value your opinions.
Thankyou
Wanting to do my PPL eventually, in the midst of completing my IT course and hope to get a very well paid IT job that will pay for my training.
Had a trial flying lesson, and loved it sooo much, that i now want to train for my PPL and get my license with hope of one day expanding to other qualifications and get other licenses, but anyway one step at a time!
Looking at starting lessons next year some time, more or less will be next autumn i recon.
I live near Southend in Essex, and i don't drive, so i'm thinking Southend Flying Club is the best option, but there's something about the club that i am not too sure of, they seem to be a bit pricey and expensive, but i dont know if thats because the flying club is literally in Southend Regional Airport, Southend Airport is really easy for me to access and it makes sense to do it there as its accessible, but the price of the PPL is a little steep at the cost of over £7000, for the full course (all inclusive) and i need to buy my pilot gear extra to that.
On the other hand, i am really interested in Stapleford Flying Club. Me and my dad used to go there all the time when i was younger, and pop in for a drink and used to chat to pilots, watch the aircraft takeoff and land and just have a good nose around really. They seem friendly and its a nice little airstrip and has some really good facilities. I had my trial flying lesson there, took off a flew over my house too which was really good.
Stapleford offers the full PPL for just over £6500 (all inclusive) saving me £500 compared to Southend Flying Club, which is a big saving. I like Stapleford and id be happy to do flying lessons there (part time, weekends etc). But Stapleford is really awkward to access, as i can remember being near to motorways, no busses, trains but really out the way, its quite a green but nice area, but just so hard to access considering i dont drive.
So this lead me to think of London, i know London well, i used to live there, get a travel card and you can go anywhere, but i dont know the airstrips or flying clubs of london if any, i dont know if they are any dearer or any easier to access by public transport. Im really looking to find the most accessible flying club to do my lessons, but i just want value for money, im also (if the price is right) willing to pay all the fees upfront to make a further saving too, but this will prolong the flying lessons maybe back another year, but thinking this maybe worth it.
For now, i managed to buy from Ebay a good detailed book on the cessna 152 , quite technical but very detailed and interesting to read, also bought the Trevor Thom Flying Manuals 1-5 (1989 addition from ebay for about £3 a book) i know that they are out dated, but atleast i will get a very good and clear idea of the principles of flight, the flying, law, navigation, human factors etc before i actually go and buy the Latest Flying Manuals when i do the PPL course, for £15 for a set of Trevor Thom books is quite good value i think (even though they are old).
So the question is, really what do you think the best flight school is in London or Essex, is there any really good accessible flying schools around, or any cheap flying schools?
Am i aiming in the right direction do you think?
Any ideas for training etc, is there anything in the books i bought that i can study to get me a head start?
Id value your opinions.
Thankyou
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Life's priorities
Job + spare income put towards driving licence then to transport - car or bike perhaps, next better job + more spare income = roof or shelter for long term, better job + more spare income = hobby maybe flying training? What if partner appears on scene? Joint income = more spare cash but restricted spending opportunities?
Others will say just do it but be advised it is addictive and costs no matter where you do it. My rule of live near work and drive to leisure has saved lots.
Read all you can give Google some stick and you will learn what you need to know and be better informed as a result- we all have opinions but only yours really counts.
Read PPrune widely and you will learn all you need if you have the patience. The books change little except for air law.
Happy hunting...
Others will say just do it but be advised it is addictive and costs no matter where you do it. My rule of live near work and drive to leisure has saved lots.
Read all you can give Google some stick and you will learn what you need to know and be better informed as a result- we all have opinions but only yours really counts.
Read PPrune widely and you will learn all you need if you have the patience. The books change little except for air law.
Happy hunting...
Hovering AND talking
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Bear in mind that very few complete a PPL in the minimum hours so the all-in prices quoted are a minimum. Allow for at least another 10 hours.
Consider how often you would need to be going to the airfield for lessons and then tot up the cost of travelling by public transport; Southend, being local, could well be cheaper in the long run.
I suspect that most of the London Flying Clubs are not that easily accessible by public transport.
If you don't drive because you haven't learnt, I would recommend you do so. If you go on to professional licences, you will need to be mobile. If you can drive but, say, don't have a licence at the moment, then the logisitics will get easier when you get it back!
Cheers
Whirls
Consider how often you would need to be going to the airfield for lessons and then tot up the cost of travelling by public transport; Southend, being local, could well be cheaper in the long run.
I suspect that most of the London Flying Clubs are not that easily accessible by public transport.
If you don't drive because you haven't learnt, I would recommend you do so. If you go on to professional licences, you will need to be mobile. If you can drive but, say, don't have a licence at the moment, then the logisitics will get easier when you get it back!
Cheers
Whirls
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Do it in lumps by saving and deff get the class one medical first.
Dont waste money on cars and women.
Get enough saved then go to the states and do your PPL, IR and 100 PIC. Then come back to the UK get a UK PPL issued and use the FAA IR to get a UK IMC rating issued. Complete a flying instructor course and sit the CPL exams. Then start instructing.
Dont waste money on cars and women.
Get enough saved then go to the states and do your PPL, IR and 100 PIC. Then come back to the UK get a UK PPL issued and use the FAA IR to get a UK IMC rating issued. Complete a flying instructor course and sit the CPL exams. Then start instructing.
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There is a lot of sense in going to the states not only in cost but because of our weather.
In the Uk you will forever be waiting for the correct days. When I did my PPL many moons ago I took a year.
If I wanted a PPL now I would take three weeks off, go to the USA especially where good weather is almost guaranteed and hammer the whole lot off in one shot rather than fiddling around in our climate here in the UK and all the delays and costs incurred by doing so.
Pace
In the Uk you will forever be waiting for the correct days. When I did my PPL many moons ago I took a year.
If I wanted a PPL now I would take three weeks off, go to the USA especially where good weather is almost guaranteed and hammer the whole lot off in one shot rather than fiddling around in our climate here in the UK and all the delays and costs incurred by doing so.
Pace
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An Initial Class One medical at Gatwick will cost nearly £1000 so don't bother getting it until you are sure you want to start Commercial Pilot (CPL) or Airline Pilot (ATPL) training. If you dont/cant drive then Southend is the obvious choice but apart from the price its important that you feel comfortable with the School and its Instructors. Any place that seems cliquey or you never get the same instructor twice, forget it. (Two or three different Instructors is OK though so dont get hung up searching for One to One instruction).
The USA option is OK (I did it for my PPL) but it will be the hardest work you have ever done (flying, studying for exams, taking exams 7 days a week until you are done). When you come back to the UK you will have to learn the differences between USA & UK flying ie. Circuit joining procedure, Radio calls & Air Traffic services offered etc.
Good luck with your training
The USA option is OK (I did it for my PPL) but it will be the hardest work you have ever done (flying, studying for exams, taking exams 7 days a week until you are done). When you come back to the UK you will have to learn the differences between USA & UK flying ie. Circuit joining procedure, Radio calls & Air Traffic services offered etc.
Good luck with your training
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He has to get his Class 1 Medical. What if he goes through all the trainign and it will come out that he can't be a pilot as he won't pass his medical? Waste of money.
A medical doesn't cost 1000 pound?! Are you mad
?
It's 317 pound atm. Correct me if I'm wrong
A medical doesn't cost 1000 pound?! Are you mad
?It's 317 pound atm. Correct me if I'm wrong
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I am always amazed at how people are happy to go for the cheapest flying costs without considering the costs of actually getting there. Mr Newbie, you might want to consider Inverness for your flight training since it is VERY cheap there ;-)
But really, you do need to not only look at the cost of getting to Stapleford for each flight. If it costs you £10 to get to Stapleford and back on public transport, then that is £500, which is the difference in your training fees. Also take into consideration the fact that you might travel all the way there, only to find our that the clouds have come down and you cannot fly. Another £10 wasted.
But really, you do need to not only look at the cost of getting to Stapleford for each flight. If it costs you £10 to get to Stapleford and back on public transport, then that is £500, which is the difference in your training fees. Also take into consideration the fact that you might travel all the way there, only to find our that the clouds have come down and you cannot fly. Another £10 wasted.
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Southend Flying Club undoubtedly have higher operating costs but there will be an advantage in that the instructor will be able to get you in and out of there is more marginal weather as they have published approaches. This won't affect your training (except giving you better exposure to weather and a larger airport) but may make the difference when Stapleford etc are not flying due to some innocuous scattered low cloud layers.
If you bite the bullet and learn at Southend you'll gain useful experience of flying at a busy airfield with all the bells and whistles. Radar, ILS, NDB.
Listen to that voice in your head... do it, do it, do it.
Best of luck dude.
Listen to that voice in your head... do it, do it, do it.
Best of luck dude.
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And I should add that the weather record for Southend is probably the best for flying in the south-east of UK. The cloud from the west invariably takes much longer to get over that far east, leaving many 'doom forecast' days quite flyable for much longer.
The driest place in the UK used to be 2 miles east of the airport, not sure if this is still the case though.
Southend FC would be a good choice, there are three other clubs on the field also.
The driest place in the UK used to be 2 miles east of the airport, not sure if this is still the case though.
Southend FC would be a good choice, there are three other clubs on the field also.
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Good luck wherever you go,
The only thing I would say (and do a search on the threads for this) is do investigate what you get for your dosh.
Is the "all in" a guaranteed PPL pass or x hours of flying?
Beware "All In" means different things to different people.
Go to Southend and ask them how they can help you to get your PPL, what the costs are and what they actually mean, can they do you a deal if you pay in installments (but be careful with paying all upfront however - other schools have gone bust in the past), can they throw in your books etc as a part of the deal.
Try and speak with others who are near the end of their PPL at the school - I guarantee you they will be happy to tell you all their good and bad experiences.
Go and do the same at Stapleford
Hopefully someone will be able to point you at some other flying clubs accesible from London where you can do the same - sorry I can't help out there.
In answer to your question regarding "cheap" - make sure you do all your homework. If a deal looks to good to be true, it usually is. It could be cheap hourly rate but take 100 hours to get your PPL or expensive hourly rate but get it in 50. So the expensive then isn't.....
Personally I would rather learn from Southend (Same reasons as Freight) and then get a share later at Stapleford (but others will have a different opinion)
The only thing I would say (and do a search on the threads for this) is do investigate what you get for your dosh.
Is the "all in" a guaranteed PPL pass or x hours of flying?
Beware "All In" means different things to different people.
Go to Southend and ask them how they can help you to get your PPL, what the costs are and what they actually mean, can they do you a deal if you pay in installments (but be careful with paying all upfront however - other schools have gone bust in the past), can they throw in your books etc as a part of the deal.
Try and speak with others who are near the end of their PPL at the school - I guarantee you they will be happy to tell you all their good and bad experiences.
Go and do the same at Stapleford
Hopefully someone will be able to point you at some other flying clubs accesible from London where you can do the same - sorry I can't help out there.
In answer to your question regarding "cheap" - make sure you do all your homework. If a deal looks to good to be true, it usually is. It could be cheap hourly rate but take 100 hours to get your PPL or expensive hourly rate but get it in 50. So the expensive then isn't.....
Personally I would rather learn from Southend (Same reasons as Freight) and then get a share later at Stapleford (but others will have a different opinion)
The USA option is OK (I did it for my PPL) but it will be the hardest work you have ever done (flying, studying for exams, taking exams 7 days a week until you are done).
I heartily recommend the USA option, agreeing though that you'll take a few flights to get use to UK procedures on your return. Aim to go for 4 weeks rather than three and it'll be even nicer
Compared to my experiences at, say, university, the work level was low.
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Hello,
I did my PPL at Stapleford and moved down Southend way near the end of my training. I would recommend Southend as it is much easier for you to get to. I got fed up going up and down the A127, also if you are a bit unsure of the weather sometimes it can be a wasted trip. There are a few clubs down at Southend so go to all of them, I find my one very friendly. Also alot more people are at Stapleford making it more difficult sometimes to get a plane. It's up to you but I found being close to the airfield a big bonus.
I did my PPL at Stapleford and moved down Southend way near the end of my training. I would recommend Southend as it is much easier for you to get to. I got fed up going up and down the A127, also if you are a bit unsure of the weather sometimes it can be a wasted trip. There are a few clubs down at Southend so go to all of them, I find my one very friendly. Also alot more people are at Stapleford making it more difficult sometimes to get a plane. It's up to you but I found being close to the airfield a big bonus.
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Re-reading the OP I can't see anything that indicates getting a Class 1 medical. If a well-paid job in IT is on the cards, getting transport issues would be my priority, whilst starting the training somewhere. If it's club atmosphere and grass-roots flying that appeals, perhaps Andrewsfield is in reach?
If CaptainNobodyasyet has an ultimate goal in flying, such as aeros or farmstrip flying, or just a leaning towards recreational versus commercial ops, the route becomes clearer. It might be an idea to look into the NPPL option too, at least as a stepping stone. As someone here once said, Google is your friend.
There are as many opinions on here as registered users, so read them all and do your own thing.
But do it!
If CaptainNobodyasyet has an ultimate goal in flying, such as aeros or farmstrip flying, or just a leaning towards recreational versus commercial ops, the route becomes clearer. It might be an idea to look into the NPPL option too, at least as a stepping stone. As someone here once said, Google is your friend.
There are as many opinions on here as registered users, so read them all and do your own thing.
But do it!
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in the midst of completing my IT course and hope to get a very well paid IT job
Oh Shazbat!
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GtW is right, we have a lot of pressure on salaries in IT at the moment. I would also caution that in IT you tend to do things when other people aren't working, so whilst our users are enjoying the good weather at the weekend, us IT folks tend to be doing urgent maintenance, moves to production etc. so don't expect a lot of time off for flying.
I've also been pulled up for setting my on-line presence to read along the lines of "Great flying weather but I'm stuck in ......"
If you want to earn money in IT, find a product that is nearly at end of life & study it well. Then make the most of about 5 years when everyone will want skills in it to keep their legacy apps alive, save the money you make by being a rare resource then take a huge block of time off and fly.
Sorry about the thread drift chaps
I've also been pulled up for setting my on-line presence to read along the lines of "Great flying weather but I'm stuck in ......"
If you want to earn money in IT, find a product that is nearly at end of life & study it well. Then make the most of about 5 years when everyone will want skills in it to keep their legacy apps alive, save the money you make by being a rare resource then take a huge block of time off and fly.
Sorry about the thread drift chaps
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I would advise youn to learn to drive first.
Driving and flying are "psycho-motor" skills and you will firstly need to condition your brain's psychomotor.
You could carry out this conditioning in a car at £20-25/hr...
Or you could carry out the same exercise in an aeroplane at £125/hr
Either way I always reckon a complete newbie requires about 10hrs in order to get the brain conditioned to handling transport machinery before the real learning starts.
I think I have just saved you £1,000
Driving and flying are "psycho-motor" skills and you will firstly need to condition your brain's psychomotor.
You could carry out this conditioning in a car at £20-25/hr...
Or you could carry out the same exercise in an aeroplane at £125/hr
Either way I always reckon a complete newbie requires about 10hrs in order to get the brain conditioned to handling transport machinery before the real learning starts.
I think I have just saved you £1,000
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It'll always cost more than you can afford!
Well, now 4 years behind my JAR-FCL PPL and a good stint living in Canada with a Canadian PPL, and now in the USA with an FAA ticket, the one thing that has been common to all is;
The only way to make a small fortune with flying is to start with a bigger one!
No matter where you fly the expense is incredible! It does become very "relative" when you permanently live somewhere! When I first moved to Canada, I thought the 60 quid (pounds sterling) the wet hour cost me for a new C172SP was a great deal, but after living in Canada and getting used to lifes other cost baseline's it suddenly didn't seem so cheap!
Now I'm living in Sunny Florida - most would say one of the coolest places to fly in the world. Sure, you get lots of sunshine, but with it comes Hurricane's and awful thunderstorms that love ripping the wings off Cessna's. There's a big downside too!
The best advice I'd offer to anyone back in Europe is take your strong currency, and spend it here in the USA to do your license. Your money simply goes a lot, lot further! But, you do need to go back home and do a good 5-10 hours after your PPL on learning the ropes of flying in JAA airspace. Things are quite different!
I loved flying in Canada. The big wide open forests and wilds of Ontario were incredible for long distance cross country flights. Then again, going into Class C in Toronto to do circuits around the top of the CN Tower was almost as easy!
In the USA General Aviation is more of a commodity and more people do it! Get ready for busy skies, and spend your money wisely on picking a good school that can teach you as per the JAA syllabus. It'll cost you roughly half to 2/3rds what it would cost by doing your full PPL training at a UK FBO/School/Club. Yep, you have to pay to travel, and accommodation etc, but your money goes literally twice as far. If you end up earning your income in US Dollars then it doesn't seem quite as cheap anymore! Bring those fat pounds over here and fly, fly, fly!
It matters not that you cannot drive a car - it would certainly help if you could, because as mentioned earlier, it will help your man-machine coordination. But save, save save......and remember an idea or thought held high is no better than a dream if you don't execute. Set out a plan to achieve what you want, and then make it happen. Do not live your life with your head held low in a long term regret.
Flying will always cost you more than you can afford. It's simply the nature of the beast. Unless, of course you fly professionally, in which case it doesn't feel quite as free as it could be! Getting up at 4am in the morning to do a boring flight you've done 130 times already! Messing in the airports, and dealing with the public! It's bad enough flying as a passenger these days, so it must be awful being a professional pilot that has to touch modern airports - better not dealing with self-loading freight if you ask me!
Good luck, make it happen!
Dave Tidwell
The only way to make a small fortune with flying is to start with a bigger one!
No matter where you fly the expense is incredible! It does become very "relative" when you permanently live somewhere! When I first moved to Canada, I thought the 60 quid (pounds sterling) the wet hour cost me for a new C172SP was a great deal, but after living in Canada and getting used to lifes other cost baseline's it suddenly didn't seem so cheap!
Now I'm living in Sunny Florida - most would say one of the coolest places to fly in the world. Sure, you get lots of sunshine, but with it comes Hurricane's and awful thunderstorms that love ripping the wings off Cessna's. There's a big downside too!
The best advice I'd offer to anyone back in Europe is take your strong currency, and spend it here in the USA to do your license. Your money simply goes a lot, lot further! But, you do need to go back home and do a good 5-10 hours after your PPL on learning the ropes of flying in JAA airspace. Things are quite different!
I loved flying in Canada. The big wide open forests and wilds of Ontario were incredible for long distance cross country flights. Then again, going into Class C in Toronto to do circuits around the top of the CN Tower was almost as easy!
In the USA General Aviation is more of a commodity and more people do it! Get ready for busy skies, and spend your money wisely on picking a good school that can teach you as per the JAA syllabus. It'll cost you roughly half to 2/3rds what it would cost by doing your full PPL training at a UK FBO/School/Club. Yep, you have to pay to travel, and accommodation etc, but your money goes literally twice as far. If you end up earning your income in US Dollars then it doesn't seem quite as cheap anymore! Bring those fat pounds over here and fly, fly, fly!
It matters not that you cannot drive a car - it would certainly help if you could, because as mentioned earlier, it will help your man-machine coordination. But save, save save......and remember an idea or thought held high is no better than a dream if you don't execute. Set out a plan to achieve what you want, and then make it happen. Do not live your life with your head held low in a long term regret.
Flying will always cost you more than you can afford. It's simply the nature of the beast. Unless, of course you fly professionally, in which case it doesn't feel quite as free as it could be! Getting up at 4am in the morning to do a boring flight you've done 130 times already! Messing in the airports, and dealing with the public! It's bad enough flying as a passenger these days, so it must be awful being a professional pilot that has to touch modern airports - better not dealing with self-loading freight if you ask me!
Good luck, make it happen!
Dave Tidwell
