Intereuropean light aircraft ferry flight
Avgas
Hi
Just a quick point...
Check Avgas availability in Brindisi. Last time I was there in a piston engined aircraft they said that it would be available but was not.
As far as the route goes, from Gatwick? Do you mean Redhill or somewhere?
Without the relevant (VFR I assume?) charts in front of me, off the top of my head you could try Redhill to Calais, (cheaper landing/fuel than some others) Calais to somewhere in the South of France (can be expensive even for a tech stop) such as Cannes/LFMD, Cannes to Brindisi is achievable with LR fuel, but stay in your comfort zone! There are many smaller GA fields in Italy en route. Check Avgas!!!!!!!
Try UVAir in Brindisi/LIBR for fuel availability on 390270200406.
In the end, it depends on your experience as a pilot. Why not take a friend along that has some European flight experience?
Just watch the weather near the hills/mountains, stay away from the higher ground if you are unhappy.
Hope this helps, been a while since I did some single engined ferrying so I stand to be corrected.
Enjoy the trip.
Just a quick point...
Check Avgas availability in Brindisi. Last time I was there in a piston engined aircraft they said that it would be available but was not.
As far as the route goes, from Gatwick? Do you mean Redhill or somewhere?
Without the relevant (VFR I assume?) charts in front of me, off the top of my head you could try Redhill to Calais, (cheaper landing/fuel than some others) Calais to somewhere in the South of France (can be expensive even for a tech stop) such as Cannes/LFMD, Cannes to Brindisi is achievable with LR fuel, but stay in your comfort zone! There are many smaller GA fields in Italy en route. Check Avgas!!!!!!!
Try UVAir in Brindisi/LIBR for fuel availability on 390270200406.
In the end, it depends on your experience as a pilot. Why not take a friend along that has some European flight experience?
Just watch the weather near the hills/mountains, stay away from the higher ground if you are unhappy.
Hope this helps, been a while since I did some single engined ferrying so I stand to be corrected.
Enjoy the trip.
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Scanavos, if you post one-line questions you are not going to get useful answers!
On any forum, you have to put some effort into writing the question, if you want to get anything useful out of it.
Are you going VFR or IFR?
If VFR, it is a case of obtaining the VFR charts, laying them out all over the floor and drawing lines on them. Jeppesen sell 1:500k VFR charts, all the way down to Italy.
If IFR, then you need to work out a valid Eurocontrol route, e.g. this FL100 one
EGKK DVR L9 KONAN L607 ULMEN DCT NASBO Q762 FRANK Z12 RINEX W718 DKB G5 AKANU L603 TEGBA L605 GAMLI L725 SNU M138 PUBEG M725 ZAG L187 DBK A48 BRD DCT LIBR
but at 1175nm you won't be flying this in a C172
unless you have a ferry tank. The aforementioned route was worked out in a few seconds using this tool.
On any forum, you have to put some effort into writing the question, if you want to get anything useful out of it.
Are you going VFR or IFR?
If VFR, it is a case of obtaining the VFR charts, laying them out all over the floor and drawing lines on them. Jeppesen sell 1:500k VFR charts, all the way down to Italy.
If IFR, then you need to work out a valid Eurocontrol route, e.g. this FL100 one
EGKK DVR L9 KONAN L607 ULMEN DCT NASBO Q762 FRANK Z12 RINEX W718 DKB G5 AKANU L603 TEGBA L605 GAMLI L725 SNU M138 PUBEG M725 ZAG L187 DBK A48 BRD DCT LIBR
but at 1175nm you won't be flying this in a C172
unless you have a ferry tank. The aforementioned route was worked out in a few seconds using this tool.
Originally Posted by scanavos
I wait for more answers 7 days left to take the plane and I still need more info...
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He is Canadian, so this sort of question is reasonable because the airspace over there is very different to ours. Europe's airspace is a complete mess and totally baffles pilots from the American side of things. IFR is a lot easier (much less different around the world than VFR) but they still get shafted by things like Eurocontrol routings, and total nonsense like PPR. I've bumped into lots of American pilots (mostly bizjet ones) around airports I've been to and they all have fun with this gold plated European crap... in the USA if you want to fly somewhere, you get the weather, file the flight plan (getting the notam etc briefing all in one go) and FLY.
I vaguely recall filing Brindisi as an alternate once (been past it quite a few times on the way down to Corfu LGKR and it is the last airport on the way down there) and it didn't have avgas back then.
Right now, the current Jeppesen Flitestar data shows no avgas, but the 2007/08 ACUKWIK airport directory shows it having both avgas and jet (and PPR is needed). But, never ever ever fly to any Italian airport unless you have made a positive contact with their authority and checked all this stuff. An Italian speaker may be needed for this. It could easily have avgas but not sell it to non aeroclub members (unless you bribe somebody) and I got caught this way at Treviso last year. The airport website is here.
I vaguely recall filing Brindisi as an alternate once (been past it quite a few times on the way down to Corfu LGKR and it is the last airport on the way down there) and it didn't have avgas back then.
Right now, the current Jeppesen Flitestar data shows no avgas, but the 2007/08 ACUKWIK airport directory shows it having both avgas and jet (and PPR is needed). But, never ever ever fly to any Italian airport unless you have made a positive contact with their authority and checked all this stuff. An Italian speaker may be needed for this. It could easily have avgas but not sell it to non aeroclub members (unless you bribe somebody) and I got caught this way at Treviso last year. The airport website is here.
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" in the USA if you want to fly somewhere, you get the weather, file the flight plan (getting the notam etc briefing all in one go) and FLY."
Totally agree - why can't it be like that in europe
Totally agree - why can't it be like that in europe
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I got caught in Italy when we wanted to fuel up on arrival for an early morning departure. They wouldn't sell us duty free fuel unless we had a flight plan for the next hour or so (next day's didn't count), so we went to the tower, filed a flight plan, filled with fuel, then called on the radio and cancelled the plan.
Italy is still full of such bureaucratic nonsense.
Last time I flew to Corfu (over Brindisi) VFR, I routed Dover, Calais, north of Paris, refuel in Troyes, south to Lyon/Marseille avoiding very high ground, follow coast round to Cannes for fuel then across the Med to Bastia & Elba. Italian ATC only allowed a low level VFR route past Rome some miles off the coast so had to relay positions, then into Naples for fuel. Next hop over the southern end of the Apennines towards Brindisi.
Italy is still full of such bureaucratic nonsense.
Last time I flew to Corfu (over Brindisi) VFR, I routed Dover, Calais, north of Paris, refuel in Troyes, south to Lyon/Marseille avoiding very high ground, follow coast round to Cannes for fuel then across the Med to Bastia & Elba. Italian ATC only allowed a low level VFR route past Rome some miles off the coast so had to relay positions, then into Naples for fuel. Next hop over the southern end of the Apennines towards Brindisi.
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I guess a C172 will need at least two fuel stops on this one.
Assuming the pilot has no oxygen (pretty likely) I would go to Austria, fill up there, and cross the Alps over that way, and continue down the coast of Yugoslavia (Pula, Split etc). Avgas is OK all the way down there. Fill up at say Pula or Split.
With a higher ceiling (a C172 might go to FL140 perhaps?) I would do Friedrichshafen EDNY, then straight over the Alps to Ljubljana LJLJ, then Dubrovnik LDDU.
Best to forget Switzerland if VFR because they don't let you into their FL130+ Class C and that keeps you very close to the mountains - I did that once and you get great photos but it is very weather sensitive.
Forget Italy altogether. Italy is OK if you speak good Italian; you phone up the airport and "arrange things".
But TBH we have no idea of what this man is capable of.
Assuming the pilot has no oxygen (pretty likely) I would go to Austria, fill up there, and cross the Alps over that way, and continue down the coast of Yugoslavia (Pula, Split etc). Avgas is OK all the way down there. Fill up at say Pula or Split.
With a higher ceiling (a C172 might go to FL140 perhaps?) I would do Friedrichshafen EDNY, then straight over the Alps to Ljubljana LJLJ, then Dubrovnik LDDU.
Best to forget Switzerland if VFR because they don't let you into their FL130+ Class C and that keeps you very close to the mountains - I did that once and you get great photos but it is very weather sensitive.
Forget Italy altogether. Italy is OK if you speak good Italian; you phone up the airport and "arrange things".
But TBH we have no idea of what this man is capable of.
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My apologies - I missed the fact that he was Canadian. Yes, help is needed.. I once spent a year flying in the UK and Europe with our American crews and there was a lot of hand holding needed for professionals!
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scanavos
From your posts it really does sound like you need to spend time in face-to-face consideration of this flight with someone who knows what they are doing. We are not likely to do the work for you and if you can't do it yourself you should not be planning(sorry for the pun) to fly the trip. As IO540 said - you need to be far more specific with the questions sport. This forum is great for advice but you sound like you are taking the p**s. It may be worth taking someone familiar with the airspace usage along for the ride.
From your posts it really does sound like you need to spend time in face-to-face consideration of this flight with someone who knows what they are doing. We are not likely to do the work for you and if you can't do it yourself you should not be planning(sorry for the pun) to fly the trip. As IO540 said - you need to be far more specific with the questions sport. This forum is great for advice but you sound like you are taking the p**s. It may be worth taking someone familiar with the airspace usage along for the ride.
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Best to forget Switzerland if VFR because they don't let you into their FL130+ Class C
and that keeps you very close to the mountains
(nah, seriously, don't go there unless you know exactly what you're doing)
Forget Italy altogether
But TBH we have no idea of what this man is capable of.
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LH2
The particular airspace, e.g. south of LSPV, just says 13000-FL195 or similar. Under e.g. Y170 this places you < 1300ft above the peaks. I've done it and it's great for picture but better make sure there is no wind
However, it's an interesting Q as to what e.g. "FL130 or 3000ft AGL" actually means. I have never found an answer to how closely one is supposed to be tracking the surface. Is there some ICAO rule? I think that in practice, one could just fly 3000ft above any peak within many miles of that peak and ATC would be unable to complain since they are not likely to have any means of checking anything other than against a large scale surface like their MVA.
The particular airspace, e.g. south of LSPV, just says 13000-FL195 or similar. Under e.g. Y170 this places you < 1300ft above the peaks. I've done it and it's great for picture but better make sure there is no wind
However, it's an interesting Q as to what e.g. "FL130 or 3000ft AGL" actually means. I have never found an answer to how closely one is supposed to be tracking the surface. Is there some ICAO rule? I think that in practice, one could just fly 3000ft above any peak within many miles of that peak and ATC would be unable to complain since they are not likely to have any means of checking anything other than against a large scale surface like their MVA.
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Brindisi
Scanavos
It surprises me sometimes how some people get to hold a PPL.
Do they not teach how to read a map and draw a route these days ?
This isn't rocket science just basis PPL stuff. To hold a PPL you must have demonstrated these skills at some stage, just get on with it.
Sorry if I appear unhelpful but sometimes I feel that all some of these questions need is the literary equivalent of a good kick up the backside.
It surprises me sometimes how some people get to hold a PPL.
Do they not teach how to read a map and draw a route these days ?
This isn't rocket science just basis PPL stuff. To hold a PPL you must have demonstrated these skills at some stage, just get on with it.
Sorry if I appear unhelpful but sometimes I feel that all some of these questions need is the literary equivalent of a good kick up the backside.
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The OP is in Canada but
is certainly not taught in the UK Well, not to the extent required to do long trips like this. There is much operational detail which is never taught. The vast majority of PPLs never go anywhere which is how the system hangs together without being questioned, and the rest probably pick it up from mates, and pilot forums
It surprises me sometimes how some people get to hold a PPL.
Do they not teach how to read a map and draw a route these days ?
Do they not teach how to read a map and draw a route these days ?
Well, not to the extent required to do long trips like this. There is much operational detail which is never taught. The vast majority of PPLs never go anywhere which is how the system hangs together without being questioned, and the rest probably pick it up from mates, and pilot forums
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what e.g. "FL130 or 3000ft AGL" actually means.
In France it means, be sensible, use your common sense, and don't screw up. If you end up busting the Geneva TMA it won't cut it if you try to argue that at F150 you were only 1000ft above Mt. Blanc only a few miles to the South
is certainly not taught in the UK Well, not to the extent required to do long trips like this.
the rest probably pick it up from mates, and pilot forums
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18 pilots answered my post.
My question was: What is the most preferred VFR route from Redhill to Brindisi?
18 licenced pilots answered my post.
Nobody answered my question.
I will be waiting to see a post answering my question, to my simplest question in aviation world: How to fly VFR on a C172 from Redhill to Brindisi?
18 licenced pilots answered my post.
Nobody answered my question.
I will be waiting to see a post answering my question, to my simplest question in aviation world: How to fly VFR on a C172 from Redhill to Brindisi?