IMC renewal on G1000
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 18nm NE grice 28ft up
Posts: 1,129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IMC renewal on G1000
Is there anyone out there does IMC renewals on Glass cockpits?
How do you handle the requirement for recovery on partial panel and position fixes? There's probably other things which may be a problem that I've not thought of.
DO.
How do you handle the requirement for recovery on partial panel and position fixes? There's probably other things which may be a problem that I've not thought of.
DO.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Northants
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
G1000 IMC renewal
I did my renewal last month and we had to use lots of post it notes to cover up the glass display for the partial failure. Not ideal but better than closing down the system, did leave sticky marks on screen though.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 18nm NE grice 28ft up
Posts: 1,129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
VL,
Thanks for that. In the real world how pointless all that is if that's the a/c the pilot always flys. I'm sure that's not how the system will fail.
I'll bet that's what you said as well!
Time for an update?
DO.
Thanks for that. In the real world how pointless all that is if that's the a/c the pilot always flys. I'm sure that's not how the system will fail.
I'll bet that's what you said as well!
Time for an update?
DO.
Upto The Buffers
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Leeds/Bradford
Age: 48
Posts: 1,112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Time for an update?
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Bath
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Shunter, there are plenty of initial IR tests done on glass cockpit aeroplanes in the UK. There would probably be even more if it wasn't for the Thielert issues with the DA42 fleet.
Ian
Ian
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bristol'ish
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've seen a large piece of cardboard used to blank off the screen held in place with two rubber bands. The G1000 has four convenient placed knobs suitable for stretching the rubber bands.
Steve
Steve
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: someplace between FAF & MAPt
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know of some chaps who simply pull the CB's for the various systems they wish to fail on G1000
I happen to know AHRS doesn't mind been reset in flight (even with upto 40deg bank!)
.... or you could just use a few items of cardboard as said
I happen to know AHRS doesn't mind been reset in flight (even with upto 40deg bank!)
.... or you could just use a few items of cardboard as said
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree, just pull the relevant C/Bs they are on the P2 side anyway (well in the DA40/42) or turn down the backlight - far easier than messing with bits of card. (Not that pulling the C/Bs would be a good idea if you actually had to fly a IAP to minima in real IMC).
I still cant understand all the excitement about glass - it does the same job. Yes, it does improve situational awareness, but that is down to the moving map and you can have one of those without Garmin or Avidyne.
I still cant understand all the excitement about glass - it does the same job. Yes, it does improve situational awareness, but that is down to the moving map and you can have one of those without Garmin or Avidyne.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 18nm NE grice 28ft up
Posts: 1,129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E 1-19
Having to do some exersizes on a different a/c seems to me a poor solution.
On a DA40/42 how can partial panel be practised with no turn co-ordinator? Or am I missing something?
The large piece of cardboard is a bit harsh. I need some instruments.
The only backup instruments are horizon, ASI and altimeter.
DO.
Having to do some exersizes on a different a/c seems to me a poor solution.
On a DA40/42 how can partial panel be practised with no turn co-ordinator? Or am I missing something?
The large piece of cardboard is a bit harsh. I need some instruments.
The only backup instruments are horizon, ASI and altimeter.
DO.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 75N 16E
Age: 54
Posts: 4,729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did my renewal last month and we had to use lots of post it notes to cover up the glass display for the partial failure. Not ideal but better than closing down the system, did leave sticky marks on screen though
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On a DA40/42 how can partial panel be practised with no turn co-ordinator? Or am I missing something?
I have experienced failure of the DI for real on the G1000 (a common occurence in the early DA40s). I have never had a failure of the AI but in the event of a major failure of the AHRS both the AI and DI will be lost unless the aircraft has a dual AHRS which most do not.
(Edited to add a failure of the AHRS could result in loss of AI and TS, the GMU is a seperate system, and as far as I am aware loss of the GMU, AI and TS would be very unlikely, short of a dual screen failure).
Last edited by Fuji Abound; 15th Sep 2008 at 16:33.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 18nm NE grice 28ft up
Posts: 1,129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I brought this up because during my recent renewal (conventional cockpit) the examiner had a printed list of the exercises he required me to demonstrate and recovery from unusual attitudes on partial panel was one of them.
If I had wanted to do the renewal on the G1000 (C182) which I now fly would he have refused or deleted that item on his list?
Is this a CAA checklist?
DO.
If I had wanted to do the renewal on the G1000 (C182) which I now fly would he have refused or deleted that item on his list?
Is this a CAA checklist?
DO.
Last edited by dont overfil; 15th Sep 2008 at 16:30.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Appendix 8 of LASORS is what you need.
So far as PP is concerned the same section on the initial test is required for a renewal.
Limited Panel Instrument Flying
Assuming failure of the gyroscopic pitch
and bank indicator and gyroscopic direction
indicator): Straight and level flight, climbing and
descending, turns onto given headings, recovery
from unusual attitudes.
As I mentioned earlier with a typical G1000 fit in the event of the AI on the PDF failing you are going to be flying on the backup AI - if that fails there is nothing much left, although I guess PDF AI and backup AI is a remotely possible failure mode if you were having the worst day imaginable in which case I guess you could be left with the DI on the PDF and the manual turn and slip on the standby AI, backup altimeter (or backup altimeter and altimeter on the PDF) and backup ASI (or backup ASI and ASI on the PDF).
In reality the worst likely failure mode is both the PDF and MDF screens fail and in the event you would be flying by sole reference to the backup AI, ASI, altimeter and magnetic compass. Other than flying an IAP to minima without any help from AT this should prove possible.
So far as PP is concerned the same section on the initial test is required for a renewal.
Limited Panel Instrument Flying
Assuming failure of the gyroscopic pitch
and bank indicator and gyroscopic direction
indicator): Straight and level flight, climbing and
descending, turns onto given headings, recovery
from unusual attitudes.
As I mentioned earlier with a typical G1000 fit in the event of the AI on the PDF failing you are going to be flying on the backup AI - if that fails there is nothing much left, although I guess PDF AI and backup AI is a remotely possible failure mode if you were having the worst day imaginable in which case I guess you could be left with the DI on the PDF and the manual turn and slip on the standby AI, backup altimeter (or backup altimeter and altimeter on the PDF) and backup ASI (or backup ASI and ASI on the PDF).
In reality the worst likely failure mode is both the PDF and MDF screens fail and in the event you would be flying by sole reference to the backup AI, ASI, altimeter and magnetic compass. Other than flying an IAP to minima without any help from AT this should prove possible.
Last edited by Fuji Abound; 15th Sep 2008 at 17:00.
The point is that the rating may be exercised in a aeroplane having only basic flight instruments therefore you must demonstrate the limited panel exercises using the TC or T&S.
The Examiners Handbook states that If the main part of the test is flown in an aircraft without a TC or T&S then the partial panel items must be flown in another aircraft or suitably qualified FNPT.
The Examiners Handbook states that If the main part of the test is flown in an aircraft without a TC or T&S then the partial panel items must be flown in another aircraft or suitably qualified FNPT.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: someplace between FAF & MAPt
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
just to add in again...
i have heard a couple of instances with the G1000 PFD and MFD 'flickering' independantly... the PFD failed, MFD kicked into revisonary mode and worked, then that failed... i think it was on a training flight in IMC, no drama, revert back to the 'old instruments' get VMC and navigate home the way it used to be done
i have heard a couple of instances with the G1000 PFD and MFD 'flickering' independantly... the PFD failed, MFD kicked into revisonary mode and worked, then that failed... i think it was on a training flight in IMC, no drama, revert back to the 'old instruments' get VMC and navigate home the way it used to be done
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The South
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's quite clear in the documents: you can't do an IMC test entirely in a glass cockpit aircraft. See section 2.2.1 of this doc:
Mark
If the flight test is conducted in an aeroplane without a separate turn coordinator or turn needle then the limited panel items on the test schedule must be carried out on a separate flight in a suitably equipped aeroplane, or in a JAR-STD device qualified to FNPT 1 or FNPT 2. This flight will count as part of one of the three allowable flight tests.