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Can I fly on my Canadian ICAO PPL In uk as a visitor??

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Can I fly on my Canadian ICAO PPL In uk as a visitor??

Old 12th Aug 2008, 17:12
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver Island
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Can I fly on my Canadian ICAO PPL In uk as a visitor??

Can any1 help me??

Im currently progessin toward the end of my PPL, which im doin with a canadian flightschool in vancouver.

Once finished, Im returnin back to the UK to earn more money before doing the rest of my training back in Canada.

I was hopin to get some flyin done back in the UK once complete, but, having over heard a conversation in my flying club restaurant, apparently i cant fly in the UK on my Canadian licence unless i learn all the UK airlaw side and take appropriate exam???

I was under the impression from numerous sources that because canadian PPL was icao, icould fly in the UK as long as i stayed within domestic borders... is this the case?

Any reliable sources welcome!!!

Thanks J
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Old 12th Aug 2008, 17:24
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Members of flight crew – requirement for licence
26 (1) Subject to the provisions of this article, a person shall not act as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom unless he is the holder of an appropriate licence granted or rendered valid under this Order.

...


(4) For the purposes of this Part of this Order:
(a) subject to sub-paragraph (b), a licence granted either under the law of a
Contracting State other than the United Kingdom but which is not a JAA licence or a licence granted under the law of a relevant overseas territory, purporting in either case to authorise the holder to act as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft, not being a licence purporting to authorise him to act as a student pilot only, shall, unless the CAA gives a direction to the contrary, be deemed to be a licence rendered valid under this Order but does not entitle the holder:
(i) to act as a member of the flight crew of any aircraft flying for the purpose of public transport or aerial work or on any flight in respect of which he receives remuneration for his services as a member of the flight crew; or
(ii) in the case of a pilot's licence, to act as pilot of any aircraft flying in controlled airspace in circumstances requiring compliance with the Instrument Flight Rules or to give any instruction in flying;
I would have thought the above quote (bold is mine) from the 2007 ANO is a reliable source that tells you - 'yes, you can'. Although, you would be wise to receive some instructions in the UK procedures, terminology, and airspace.
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Old 12th Aug 2008, 21:57
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cheers MM! thats wat i was after! thankyou v much
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Old 13th Aug 2008, 09:30
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and you can go abroad

and you can go into EU land with it as well - stil daytime VFR of course in a g-reg.
I got confirmation from DGAC in France but that was only to satisfy the owner of the aircraft that it would not be stranded pilotless.
In fact I believe you can go anywhere a g-reg aircraft can go with a UK licence you just can't go at anytime it is night or IMC.
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Old 13th Aug 2008, 09:36
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Yep, anywhere in a G-Reg VFR. Friend of mine is a Capt for Air Canada Jazz and flies my aircraft over here on a regular basis. You can fly at night but not IFR from what he was told.
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Old 13th Oct 2010, 19:44
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BoseX

If my memory serves isn't Night Flying in the UK required to be under IFR?
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Old 13th Oct 2010, 21:18
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ICAO PPL at night in UK

(ii) in the case of a pilot's licence, to act as pilot of any aircraft flying in controlled airspace in circumstances requiring compliance with the Instrument Flight Rules or to give any instruction in flying;
The ANO as quoted in post #2 by mmflynn states no IFR in CAS, so if the Canadian PPL includes night flying privileges, then the OP can fly in the UK at night outside CAS while IFR, or inside a CTR if he gets a SVFR clearance rather than an IFR one.
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Old 14th Oct 2010, 07:41
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"Can I fly on my Canadian ICAO PPL In uk as a visitor?? "

Nope - you'll need to take an aeroplane!
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Old 14th Oct 2010, 09:21
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BoseX

If my memory serves isn't Night Flying in the UK required to be under IFR?
You can fly under IFR rules without an IR or IMCr in the UK as long as the met conditions are VFR.....
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Old 14th Oct 2010, 10:04
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So, just to be clear as I have a Canadian flying with my group, he can fly night VMC in the UK but not night in Euroland as IFR is not allowed for him. I'm assuming night in France etc also has to be under IFR. (He has Canadian night priviledges)
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Old 14th Oct 2010, 10:28
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he will need to check the rules of the specific airspace that he wants to fly in. The UK permits flight at night in accordance with IFR rules without an Instrument qualification. Flight in CAS is allowed under a SVFR clearance.

Other European countries have variations from not allowing any night flight without an IR to allowing night flight from certain airfields only. Check the AIP of any country you wish to fly at night in before doing it!
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Old 14th Oct 2010, 10:29
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MrAverage

No, I am not sure even that is correct. Somewhere in my distant memory I thought some night flights in France (in particular) are treated as VFR. Mind you it is between designated pointed so may or may not be useful. Isnt it something to do with enabling them to gain night experience without an IR?
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Old 14th Oct 2010, 10:31
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I'm assuming night in France etc also has to be under IFR.
Nope. VFR at Night in France is just that. VFR. Same in Belgium. Although some special restrictions might apply. But NVFR in the Netherlands, for instance, is forbidden (except for the trauma heli and such) so in the Netherlands you'll need an IFR plane, plan and an IR.

All countries have different ideas on how to fly at night. Maybe EASA is going to bring some consistency here. Until then check the AIP, section "Visual Flight Rules" (Normally ENR 1.2)

For instance from the French AIP:
1.2.3 Night VFR Flight
Reference: Ministerial Order dated June 20th, 2001 relative to aircraft
night flight according to Visual Flight rules (JORF dated July 25th,
2001).
a) Definitions
Local Flight: Non-stop Round trip flown within a Control Zone (CTR)
associated with the concerned aerodrome or, when there is no CTR, to
6,5 NM maximum from the concerned aerodrome.
Cross-country Flight: Flight other than a local flight.
b) Approved aerodromes
A night VFR flight shall be carried out from and to approved aerodromes:
see visual approach and landing charts.
An aerodrome approved “with limitations” is only reserved for pilots
authorized by the Civil Aviation Director or his representative; these
pilots shall then be aware of local instructions specifying the specific
operating rules for this aerodrome.
c) Weather conditions
A night VFR flight shall be carried out with the following weather conditions:
a) For a local flight
- maintain the aerodrome in sight,
- ceiling equal or more than 450 m (1500 feet),
- visibility equal or more than 5 km.
b) For a cross-country flight
- keep visual reference to the ground or water,
- ceiling equal or more than 450 m (1500 feet) above the planned
cruising level,
- visibility equal or more than 8 km between departure, destination
and possible alternate aerodromes.
However, the pilot may proceed to the destination or alternate
aerodrome if the visibility transmitted by aerodrome ATC unit or
STAP, is less than 8 km but more than or equal to 5 km.
No rain shower or thunderstorm forecast between departure, destination
and possible alternate aerodromes.
For a cross-country or local flight, if there is no weather station,
STAP or ATC unit at the departure aerodrome, the pilot shall estimate
the take off visibility.
d) Lighting system when there is no ATC unit
When there is no ATC unit, the lighting system is operated, as appropriate:
- by the pilot, using a PCL if the aerodrome is equipped with,
- by a person approved by the Civil Aviation Director or his representative.
e) Flight plan
Filed Flight Plan
A FPL is sent at least 30 minutes before the estimated off blocks
time or transmitted to the appropriate ATC unit, at least 30 minutes
before SS time at the destination aerodrome for a day flight which
has to continue during night time.
Special cases
A flight plan is not required for the following flights; the appropriate
flight data are transmitted through radio communication to the
concerned ATC unit:
- local flight,
- flights between two aerodromes for which the approach control service
is provided by the same ATC unit, within the limits of the airspace
under the control of this ATC unit,
- day flights that, for unexpected reasons, will still continue during
night time, if a radio communication contact has been provided
during daytime with the ATC unit of the destination or alternate
aerodrome.
f) Routes, minimum level
Except for take-off or landing operations and associated maneuvers, a
night VFR flight shall be carried out:
- on published routes,
- if there is no route, at a minimum height of 450 m (1500 feet) above
the highest obstacle in a 8 km radius around the estimated aircraft
position. This height is 600 m (2000 ft) for areas where the relief altitude
is more than 1500 m (5000 ft),
- for local flights, except if special local instructions are provided, at a
minimum height of 300 m (1000 ft) above the highest obstacle in a 8
km radius around the estimated aircraft position.
g) Controlled airspaces and restricted areas
A night VFR flight shall be carried out:
- upon clearance issuing, in the TWR and APP controlled airspace,
especially in the airspace included in the limits of Flight Information
Sectors (SIV) during their operating times,
- upon prior permission of the appropriate ATC unit, in a restricted
area, using routes notified to users through Aeronautical Information
Service, if any.
h) Radiocommunications
Local flight without ATC unit
A pilot operating in night VFR local flight, shall keep a radio-telephone
listening watch. If there is no ATC unit, at the first call of
another pilot on the frequency, the pilot transmits position, altitude
and his intentions using self-information procedure.
Controlled Airspace and Restricted Areas
A pilot operating in night VFR flight in a controlled airspace or restricted
area, shall have a direct two-way radio-communication with
the concerned ATC unit and keep a permanent listening watch on
the appropriate radio frequency.
https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv...11_ENR-1.2.pdf
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Old 14th Oct 2010, 10:35
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Mr Average.

I think you have too many assumptions there!

Your Canadian friend would need to look at his own licence and see if he's allowed to fly under IFR on that. There isn't much point in the UK allowing a UK pilot to fly under IFR in VMC, if his Canadian licence restricts him to VFR.

Also, French regs are difference to the UK. I don't know much about them, but I believe that they do allow at least some VFR at night. The IFR at night on a PPL is a uniquely UK solution as I understand it.

dp
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Old 14th Oct 2010, 10:41
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
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- on published routes,
- if there is no route, at a minimum height of 450 m (1500 feet) above
the highest obstacle in a 8 km radius around the estimated aircraft
position. This height is 600 m (2000 ft) for areas where the relief altitude
is more than 1500 m (5000 ft),
That was it. Thank you.
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