variable pitch x training location / a/c
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variable pitch x training, location pa28RT / other ?
Have been adding types to my list of checked out out aircraft but want to learn on a variable pitch.
I could learn as part of my MEP rating but figured be one less thing to be new if I can find a SEP, and my MEP is going to be a long while away atm.
Seem to be running out of schools to ring and cant find one that I can learn at.
Trying to find a reasonably close school to Manchester/Liverpool that have an a/c and instructor, any ideas please ??
Q: do you know if this needs to be re validated as a rating like IMC or if keeping my SEP current will do it even though on a fixed.
Also looking for something with retractable and turbo (ie a PA-28RT turbo arrow would be perfect !) found a few, however they are up in Leeds not exactly around the corner.
Q: Do know if fixed gear and vari pitch training have to be done by a FTO or can you be checked in an a/c group plane and be signed off ?
May thanks for any info you can post
Ian
I could learn as part of my MEP rating but figured be one less thing to be new if I can find a SEP, and my MEP is going to be a long while away atm.
Seem to be running out of schools to ring and cant find one that I can learn at.
Trying to find a reasonably close school to Manchester/Liverpool that have an a/c and instructor, any ideas please ??
Q: do you know if this needs to be re validated as a rating like IMC or if keeping my SEP current will do it even though on a fixed.
Also looking for something with retractable and turbo (ie a PA-28RT turbo arrow would be perfect !) found a few, however they are up in Leeds not exactly around the corner.
Q: Do know if fixed gear and vari pitch training have to be done by a FTO or can you be checked in an a/c group plane and be signed off ?
May thanks for any info you can post
Ian
Last edited by igarratt; 10th Aug 2008 at 13:05.
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Variable pitch, disappearing gear etc.. are just differences training. As many hours as the instructor feels neccessary, and a sign-off in the logbook. I did it in my own aircraft (C177).
VP isn't a big deal at all. It's basically a gearbox. Fully fine for take off, a bit less for cruise climb, and a bit less again for cruise. After a couple of hours you'll wonder what all the fuss was about. Same with retractable gear, remember to pull it up, put it down, and how it affects drag and hence speed.
Any suitably qualified instructor can do such training. He doesn't have to be associated with an FTO.
VP isn't a big deal at all. It's basically a gearbox. Fully fine for take off, a bit less for cruise climb, and a bit less again for cruise. After a couple of hours you'll wonder what all the fuss was about. Same with retractable gear, remember to pull it up, put it down, and how it affects drag and hence speed.
Any suitably qualified instructor can do such training. He doesn't have to be associated with an FTO.
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VP isn't a big deal at all. It's basically a gearbox.
So long as the user knows that setting the RPM with the propeller control establishes a propeller RPM that will stay the same within published limits, when enough engine power is applied to keep it in the governing range...good enough.
Whereas a gearbox serves to change the RPM from one end to the other due to gearing ratio, the constant speed propeller (the most common kind of variable pitch prop) is far more simple...merely using oil pressure to move a piston to change blade angle. The blade angle loads the engine and propeller to keep it's speed in check in simple installations, or unloads the engine and propeller by decreasing blade angle in the even the propeller speed decreases.
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Ok, if you want to be pedantic... I was trying to simplify for the guy. It's just easy to think of it like that; 1st gear for take off, then up the box for better cruise performance. Need to overtake, downshift and floor it.
A fixed pitch prop is a compromise; a balance between various performance requirements. A variable pitch prop is adjustable in order to maintain optimum propeller efficiency.
A fixed pitch prop is a compromise; a balance between various performance requirements. A variable pitch prop is adjustable in order to maintain optimum propeller efficiency.
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As you have never flown a VP chances are most aircraft fitted with a VP will be a little more complicated that you are accustom. A VP in itself is straight forward but the aircraft to which it is fitted will be different and managment of the aircraft will contain some new elements. Chances are an instructor will end up wanting to do a flight or two with you. Of course you will be able to do a least two hours in a complex single for every one in a MEP so it may be money well spent in terms of getting use to VPs.
If the cost is less important personally I would incorporate it as part of my MEP, because on the assumption you dont have much time in complex types you are likely to find a twin will be a reasonably substantial "step up". Moreover you will also deal with retrac. gear whereas there are plenty of singles with VP props with welded u/c.
There is a significant transition from non complex singles to twins both in terms of speed and cockpit managment. Having gained your MEP you will find your skills increase significantly and flying pretty much any SEP will seem pretty straight forward in comparison - tailwheel aside - in respect of which much fun will still be there to await you!!
PS - to answer your second question I have done plenty of "check" flights on group aircraft with pilots without a VP sign off - in fact you dont have too got back that far and these sign offs were not required so we just checked out the pilot on a new type. With luck an instructor will ask you a few questions to ensure you have a reasonable knowledge of VP props and will sing your log book without further ado, if you have done a conversion onto type with a group member.
If the cost is less important personally I would incorporate it as part of my MEP, because on the assumption you dont have much time in complex types you are likely to find a twin will be a reasonably substantial "step up". Moreover you will also deal with retrac. gear whereas there are plenty of singles with VP props with welded u/c.
There is a significant transition from non complex singles to twins both in terms of speed and cockpit managment. Having gained your MEP you will find your skills increase significantly and flying pretty much any SEP will seem pretty straight forward in comparison - tailwheel aside - in respect of which much fun will still be there to await you!!
PS - to answer your second question I have done plenty of "check" flights on group aircraft with pilots without a VP sign off - in fact you dont have too got back that far and these sign offs were not required so we just checked out the pilot on a new type. With luck an instructor will ask you a few questions to ensure you have a reasonable knowledge of VP props and will sing your log book without further ado, if you have done a conversion onto type with a group member.
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Not unless you have a geared engine, but even in that case, seldom does that have any bearing on the propeller...which isn't a gearbox. It can be thought of somewhat like a transmission, but even that is overcomplication.
On the practical side, as the revs are constant, you will have to get used to setting your power by manifold pressure. Should take all of at least 30minutes!!!
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I have no idea of your experience, however I just did a CSU/Retract endorsement with about 70hrs. Did about 3hrs in a PA28R covering circuit bashing, and emergency gear extraction etc.
Not overly complex, however, it's (initially) a big workload step up compared to a fixed gear/fixed pitch; more things to think about and twiddle, and it's travelling somewhat faster while you do them.
I had intended to do it as part of a multi rating, but was convinced otherwise - good advice I felt in the event.
Not overly complex, however, it's (initially) a big workload step up compared to a fixed gear/fixed pitch; more things to think about and twiddle, and it's travelling somewhat faster while you do them.
I had intended to do it as part of a multi rating, but was convinced otherwise - good advice I felt in the event.
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VP or Constant speed?
Would somebody please enlighten me.
All of the above posts refer to what is described as a 'VP prop'.
However, some of them, (notably Guppy's reference to setting prop speed,) clearly suggest to me that what is being discussed is in fact the 'constant speed prop'.
My understanding has always been that these are two different things.
The pitch of a VP prop is set by the pilot, who then has to alter the pitch during the flight as appropriate at each stage of his/her flight. At any throttle setting and rpm, the prop remains at the same pitch unless the pilot sees fit to change it.
The constant speed prop, by contrast, is provided with a governor which changes the pitch of the prop automatically. On takeoff, the pilot first sets the prop speed required and then follows it up with throttle, on throttling back the throttle is pulled first and then the prop speed. But within any setting of throttle and prop speed, the maintenance of prop speed is automatic.
I would suppose that these days a true VP prop is a rarety except on vintage aeroplanes such as, I suppose, the Harvard.
But are we correct to use the same term for any wobbly prop?
Please enlighten.
Broomstick.
All of the above posts refer to what is described as a 'VP prop'.
However, some of them, (notably Guppy's reference to setting prop speed,) clearly suggest to me that what is being discussed is in fact the 'constant speed prop'.
My understanding has always been that these are two different things.
The pitch of a VP prop is set by the pilot, who then has to alter the pitch during the flight as appropriate at each stage of his/her flight. At any throttle setting and rpm, the prop remains at the same pitch unless the pilot sees fit to change it.
The constant speed prop, by contrast, is provided with a governor which changes the pitch of the prop automatically. On takeoff, the pilot first sets the prop speed required and then follows it up with throttle, on throttling back the throttle is pulled first and then the prop speed. But within any setting of throttle and prop speed, the maintenance of prop speed is automatic.
I would suppose that these days a true VP prop is a rarety except on vintage aeroplanes such as, I suppose, the Harvard.
But are we correct to use the same term for any wobbly prop?
Please enlighten.
Broomstick.
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A constant speed prop is just one type of variable pitch prop. Any prop whose pitch can be altered is a VP prop. My Cardinal, for example, has a bog-standard in-flight adjustable VP prop; I pull the prop control, change the pitch, and the rpm changes depending on whether I make the pitch more coarse or fine. A constant speed prop governor alters the pitch of the prop automatically in order to maintain the desired rpm.
Clear as mud?
Clear as mud?
