C172 first impressions.

[Pilot DAR]

Guppy,

Thanks for the videos! I've always wondered what the 185 wing looked like from the other side, during a stall! It reminds us how much of the aircraft weight is actually being carried by the very tips of the wings during the last phase of a stall.

Pilot DAR

[JohnGV]

thanks for the aggreement marky on the flaps, it is best like mentioned bout waitin till 300 hundred on goaround from flare before retractin any flaps. but whats the climb to 300 hundred - 10 seconds - hardly anythin to moan about in terms of climbing "bein a slog"!

lol. oh n i agree bout the brakes in assistin turns - u definately do. taxiin with a tailwind is usually found best to push control column in and turn opposie to side tail wind is comin from - helps keep control in high winds which can be tricky due to high wing.

[Mark1234]

There may be a little confusion between the book takeoff configurations and what you do on a go around; if I recall correctly the POH states 10deg flap, takeoff speed, and a target speed to maintain until xxx ft where you accelerate and clean up.

There's nothing that says you may not climb with 20 or more degrees of flap hanging out; but short of system failures, why would you! The recommended configurations for takeoff are 0 or 10 (IIRC), but even that doesn't mean you cannot try a takeoff with 20. It may be a bad idea, but as far as I'm aware the only legally binding parts of the POH are the limitations - MTOW, Vspeeds etc.

Guidance and rules may vary depending on where in the world you are; for my part, I was never taught, nor have operated to a xxx ft before you retract the flaps; on go around it's full power, pitch for airspeed (and terrain!), with sufficient airspeed margin the flaps start coming in a notch at a time.

All other things being equal, if I have the capacity to reduce flap from 40 to 20, close to the ground, I see no reson not to bring it back to 10, and even 0 as the situation allows. re-trim as hands become available, and keep flying it. Like Guppy, I'd consider keeping the flap hanging all the way to 300 an unnecessary risk.

Caveat - the reason not to do the above would seem to be that your instructor says so. He almost certainly knows you better than I do, and has more idea of how many things you can be dealing with at a time, and what the law is where you fly.

The piper requires/tolerates more flap deflection for the short field as the flaps are smaller and less effective - that probably also accounts for the higher Vfe, and better climb performance at similar extension angles.

But really it boils down to this - they're different aircraft, with slightly different characteristics. Each has their strengths - fly either/both and you'll get used to it - enjoy

[TotalBeginner]

the reason not to do the above would seem to be that your instructor says so. He almost certainly knows you better than I do

I have hired from 3 different schools/clubs here in the UK and during all of the check rides the instructors have said that the flaps should not be retracted beyond 20/25deg until 300ft AGL.

It even says it in my PPL training manual:

Retract the remaining flap in stages at a safe height-not below 300ft AGL.

[Mark1234]

Oh well, there ya go I did say procedure may vary by locale. (I'm not UK based, for now at least) Still seems damn silly to me - as you discovered, 20degrees of flap in one aircraft is totally different to 20 degrees in another.

[TotalBeginner]

20degrees of flap in one aircraft is totally different to 20 degrees in another.

I agree and the aircraft will not stall just because it's 300ft higher. I think the main reason for this procedure is to prevent a distracted pilot from making a mistake at an Alt where it can't be corrected. I guess if you raised the flaps at 300ft agl and the stall warner started to sound, you'd probably have enough room to pitch over and gain speed. At 50ft however, you might instinctively pull harder!