safety pilot course?
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I think they may be stretching the term "safety" pretty much to the limits, there.
I particularly liked
Stall awareness
and
An introduction to take-off and landing.
I particularly liked
Stall awareness
and
An introduction to take-off and landing.
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I think this course looks to be one of the better I have seen.
I've produced my own safety 'course' for anyone who flies with me on a regular basis, and the Fenland course seems likely to cover the requirements which are:
tp
I've produced my own safety 'course' for anyone who flies with me on a regular basis, and the Fenland course seems likely to cover the requirements which are:
- retain control of the aircraft
- know how to call for help
- be able to follow instructions
- it is relatively easy to do
- it stops them moving out of radio range of the station I was last talking to
- it stops them entering controlled airspace (probably)
- it makes them easier to find and identify
tp
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Never let the facts get in the way of a good business proposition?
Just out of curiosity, how many cases of pilot incapacitation have there been in, say, the last 5 years which have led to pax fatalities/injuries in GA aircraft?
It's not that I particularly begrudge cash-strapped flying clubs earning a few quid, but what are the actual risks?
It's not that I particularly begrudge cash-strapped flying clubs earning a few quid, but what are the actual risks?
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There definitely is a small niche market for this. It's for the significant others, and regular passengers of elderly pilots. Even if there's no actual statistics about fatal accidents resulting from pilot incapacitation, I know quite a few pilots and passengers thinking about this scenario.
A passenger who has had a little training in
- Calling for help (radio, transponder usage)
- Follow instructions (vectors)
- Land the plane in such a way that the occupants are not more sick than they already were
is far more likely to enjoy a flight, without the worry 'what would I do if'.
Plus such a course provides a fairly good basis for the pilot to slowly give the passenger more significant tasks in flying the plane.
If I had a non-pilot passenger who flew with me regularly, I would at some point suggest that he/she would do exactly such a course. Although I think the Fenland course, at 7 to 10 hours, is a bit too much. I would say one or two hours would be enough, initially.
A passenger who has had a little training in
- Calling for help (radio, transponder usage)
- Follow instructions (vectors)
- Land the plane in such a way that the occupants are not more sick than they already were
is far more likely to enjoy a flight, without the worry 'what would I do if'.
Plus such a course provides a fairly good basis for the pilot to slowly give the passenger more significant tasks in flying the plane.
If I had a non-pilot passenger who flew with me regularly, I would at some point suggest that he/she would do exactly such a course. Although I think the Fenland course, at 7 to 10 hours, is a bit too much. I would say one or two hours would be enough, initially.
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Fighting chance....
Mrs Duchess has been shown the basics....and would probably make a good stab at getting the thing back on the ground. Don't care what the statistics say (and there was a case in the US not too long ago) it's only fair that she has a fighting chance to save herself, Duchess The Younger and Duchess Junior.
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Just out of curiosity, how many cases of pilot incapacitation have there been in, say, the last 5 years which have led to pax fatalities/injuries in GA aircraft?
There have been accidents, usually with no passengers present, where pilot incapacitation (a heart attack) has been suspected once other explanations have been eliminated. But it's totally just conjecture.
In the USA, where they have a vastly bigger pilot population, much of it flying under a medical which has no ECG, the data shows the risk is negligible.
I'm curious as to what they mean by an "introduction" to landing. I reckon that out of all the useful things a non-pilot with a dead skipper could learn, landing would be top of the list.
Doesn't matter how good your level flying is, if you can't land the bugger, you've got a problem......
Doesn't matter how good your level flying is, if you can't land the bugger, you've got a problem......
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"PS I might add that it has very little to do with actual risk and everything to do with PAX confidence, no?"
I'd entirely agree with that, hence my post asking what the real risk is, because as pilots we should be dealing with facts not fiction. If a so-called 'safety pilot course' allows PAX to get more out of flying that's good - if it leads them to becoming pilots then that's brilliant - however it still has nothing to do with safety!
If you imagine how distracted and distraught a qualified pilot would be if they had to fly their expiring spouse to safety, I'm doubtful that the outcome would be a happy one if the roles were reversed with the PAX having very few hours and no recency.
Perhaps I'm rather tired of businesses manufacturing 'problems' in order to sell you their 'solutions'?
I'd entirely agree with that, hence my post asking what the real risk is, because as pilots we should be dealing with facts not fiction. If a so-called 'safety pilot course' allows PAX to get more out of flying that's good - if it leads them to becoming pilots then that's brilliant - however it still has nothing to do with safety!
If you imagine how distracted and distraught a qualified pilot would be if they had to fly their expiring spouse to safety, I'm doubtful that the outcome would be a happy one if the roles were reversed with the PAX having very few hours and no recency.
Perhaps I'm rather tired of businesses manufacturing 'problems' in order to sell you their 'solutions'?
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I think this kind of training is a very good idea.
However I doubt that leaving your "other half" with an instructor is necessarily the best way to go about it.
Firstly, if you own a plane and fly it regularly, unless it is a dead common type you will know more about it than any instructor you are likely to find. Do you really want some ATPL hour builder with 200hrs climbing into your plane? Most I have met know nothing about engine management, for a start.
Secondly, the conventional PPL training methods are sometimes very stressfull (deliberately so) and not ideal for teaching somebody how to fly a plane and land it safely. The very last thing I would teach somebody is how to fly a circuit, for example. What they should know is how to engage and operate the autopilot, how to call up ATC, set 7700, etc. And how to do a landing on a nice big long runway. For a lot of that stuff, one can produce a checklist.
However I doubt that leaving your "other half" with an instructor is necessarily the best way to go about it.
Firstly, if you own a plane and fly it regularly, unless it is a dead common type you will know more about it than any instructor you are likely to find. Do you really want some ATPL hour builder with 200hrs climbing into your plane? Most I have met know nothing about engine management, for a start.
Secondly, the conventional PPL training methods are sometimes very stressfull (deliberately so) and not ideal for teaching somebody how to fly a plane and land it safely. The very last thing I would teach somebody is how to fly a circuit, for example. What they should know is how to engage and operate the autopilot, how to call up ATC, set 7700, etc. And how to do a landing on a nice big long runway. For a lot of that stuff, one can produce a checklist.
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I don't think that engine management is on the priority list though.
The course seems to be loosely based on the AOPA pinch hitter course and the main objective seems to be (where the pilot is incapacitated) :
Don't panic
Speak to somebody on the radio
Point the a/c where they tell you
Land it without injury
SWMBO is already pretty much there with operating the radio, transponder, straight and level, and simple turns so she's looking at doing the course for the confidence. I see it as stage 1 towards her NPPL / PPL
The course seems to be loosely based on the AOPA pinch hitter course and the main objective seems to be (where the pilot is incapacitated) :
Don't panic
Speak to somebody on the radio
Point the a/c where they tell you
Land it without injury
SWMBO is already pretty much there with operating the radio, transponder, straight and level, and simple turns so she's looking at doing the course for the confidence. I see it as stage 1 towards her NPPL / PPL
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before I saw sence, I started training to fly a R22 heli. long story, however
had I continued with it, then hired one, the dual controls are removed on the pax side, can you just imagine the panic, should P1 have a problem ! not that
anyone without training could even attempt to wrestle a heli
had I continued with it, then hired one, the dual controls are removed on the pax side, can you just imagine the panic, should P1 have a problem ! not that
anyone without training could even attempt to wrestle a heli
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The funniest thing is that The Witch (my ex) extremely aggressively mandates a co-pilot when I take my son(s) up, but when she took them on a holiday they went up in a single pilot single-controls heli, around the G Canyon 
My 12 year old son can fly (visual and instrument, incl an ILS by hand), navigate, and land the TB20 just fine. Whether he could do it under real stress is anybody's guess but that argument would apply to anybody else too.
The point I was trying to make is that IMHO the best way to teach somebody to "recover" a plane is probably not how you would teach somebody to get the piece of paper that makes it legal to do it.
My 12 year old son can fly (visual and instrument, incl an ILS by hand), navigate, and land the TB20 just fine. Whether he could do it under real stress is anybody's guess but that argument would apply to anybody else too.
The point I was trying to make is that IMHO the best way to teach somebody to "recover" a plane is probably not how you would teach somebody to get the piece of paper that makes it legal to do it.
