SEP revalidation and training flight question
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: East Sussex
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Phew, just trolled through this thread, long and short is, nobody likes to go back to school after they have passed, flying clubs/schools will want people they are hiring to,to be safe , hence the need to be proficient in "there eyes" during the test. It is the LAW and that is that. If you have the luxury of your own aircraft then flying circles with an FI/CRI/FE, is allowable, you can usually tell if a pilot is safe within the first 15mins, or if they need to brush up on skills a gentle approach usually worms out the problem.
I usually ask for some cordinated turns, a stall and a PFL etc, for fun, they might as well get there monies worth !
Will.
I usually ask for some cordinated turns, a stall and a PFL etc, for fun, they might as well get there monies worth !
Will.
Last edited by will5023; 29th Jun 2008 at 18:11.
Of course, if EASA gets its way, every SEP Class Rating holder will have to fly not just the 2-yearly training flight, but very 6 years a mandatory Proficiency Check with an Examiner....
FCL.740.A Revalidation of class and type ratings aeroplanes
(b) Revalidation of single pilot single engine class ratings.
(1) Single engine piston aeroplane class ratings and touring motor glider ratings. For revalidation of single pilot single engine piston aeroplane class ratings or touring motor glider class ratings the applicant shall:
(i) within the three months preceding the expiry date of the rating, pass a proficiency check in the relevant class in accordance with Appendix 9 to this Part with an examiner; or
(ii) within the 12 months preceding the expiry date of the rating, complete 12 hours of flight time in the relevant class, including: 6 hours as pilot-in-command ; 12 takeoffs and 12 landings; and a training flight of at least one hour with a flight instructor (FI) or a class rating instructor (CRI). Applicants shall be exempted from this flight if they have passed a proficiency check or skill test in any other class or type of aeroplane.
(2) For at least every third revalidation, the applicant shall comply with the requirements in (1)(i).
(3) When the applicant holds both a single engine piston aeroplane land class rating and a touring motor glider rating, he/she may complete the requirements of the paragraph above in either class, and achieve revalidation of both ratings.
FCL.740.A Revalidation of class and type ratings aeroplanes
(b) Revalidation of single pilot single engine class ratings.
(1) Single engine piston aeroplane class ratings and touring motor glider ratings. For revalidation of single pilot single engine piston aeroplane class ratings or touring motor glider class ratings the applicant shall:
(i) within the three months preceding the expiry date of the rating, pass a proficiency check in the relevant class in accordance with Appendix 9 to this Part with an examiner; or
(ii) within the 12 months preceding the expiry date of the rating, complete 12 hours of flight time in the relevant class, including: 6 hours as pilot-in-command ; 12 takeoffs and 12 landings; and a training flight of at least one hour with a flight instructor (FI) or a class rating instructor (CRI). Applicants shall be exempted from this flight if they have passed a proficiency check or skill test in any other class or type of aeroplane.
(2) For at least every third revalidation, the applicant shall comply with the requirements in (1)(i).
(3) When the applicant holds both a single engine piston aeroplane land class rating and a touring motor glider rating, he/she may complete the requirements of the paragraph above in either class, and achieve revalidation of both ratings.
Join Date: May 2001
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That will be the day I let my Euro licence laps, and simply fly on the FAA ticket. I only renewed this time because I had just got the medical renewed which is valid for almost 4 years.....
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I got panned by the holier than thou fraternity on the Flyer forums for complaining about this new 6 yearly examiner test.
It is just another example of the creeping over regulation put in place to guarantee jobs for the boys and which is slowly strangling GA to death.
The recent CAA safety review of the new JAA regs (2 yearly instructor flights, 90 day rule etc) showed no improvement in safety statistics, and the new EASA proposals will do nothing but present yet another obstacle and more expense for GA pilots.
How about two yearly instructor driving lessons and resitting our driving tests every 6 years? How would that go down with the great british public. It might reduce the 3000 deaths a year on the roads never mind not reduce the dozen or so GA deaths per annum?
It is just another example of the creeping over regulation put in place to guarantee jobs for the boys and which is slowly strangling GA to death.
The recent CAA safety review of the new JAA regs (2 yearly instructor flights, 90 day rule etc) showed no improvement in safety statistics, and the new EASA proposals will do nothing but present yet another obstacle and more expense for GA pilots.
How about two yearly instructor driving lessons and resitting our driving tests every 6 years? How would that go down with the great british public. It might reduce the 3000 deaths a year on the roads never mind not reduce the dozen or so GA deaths per annum?
That will be the day I let my Euro licence laps, and simply fly on the FAA ticket.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Hmmm, that would be a bit of a change. I can't see many liking that, apart from examiners of course.........
It's not as if the GA world is crawling with FE's anyway. I can see a lot of people letting it lapse if this comes in.
Though to be fair the SEP rating is still the only one where you haven't got to renew with an examiner every year.
If they want to bring in a full on test, then do it, stop mucking about. How is every 6 years going to solve anything? Especially as the accident rate is pretty static and I can't see this making a blind bit of difference.
It's not as if the GA world is crawling with FE's anyway. I can see a lot of people letting it lapse if this comes in.
Though to be fair the SEP rating is still the only one where you haven't got to renew with an examiner every year.
If they want to bring in a full on test, then do it, stop mucking about. How is every 6 years going to solve anything? Especially as the accident rate is pretty static and I can't see this making a blind bit of difference.
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The question has to be asked.....is this in the name of Safety or jobs for the boys? Where is the evidence that people are falling out of the skies left, right and centre due to not flying with an examiner every 6 years?
I really think Europe should look at the USA and FAA - who after all invented flying. They have it right in my humble opinion. Firm but fair. The BFR satisfies everything that is needed, every 2 years. A rating is for life, not just for 1 year. Those that have lapsed (IR) can be renewed by instructor training.
Worse case scenario, I'd even give up flying group A (or whatever it is called) in Europe completely and just go to the USA 4-5 times per year and fly there at a quater the cost. There are only so many hoops I am prepared to jump through.....
I really think Europe should look at the USA and FAA - who after all invented flying. They have it right in my humble opinion. Firm but fair. The BFR satisfies everything that is needed, every 2 years. A rating is for life, not just for 1 year. Those that have lapsed (IR) can be renewed by instructor training.
Worse case scenario, I'd even give up flying group A (or whatever it is called) in Europe completely and just go to the USA 4-5 times per year and fly there at a quater the cost. There are only so many hoops I am prepared to jump through.....
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Yep, got to agree with you there EA. The FAA system does seem a wee bit more sensible and user friendly than ours. I could understand our muddle if it produced significantly better accident rates, but it doesn't.
Why not make it all easy and obvious and just let people get on with flying.
Why not make it all easy and obvious and just let people get on with flying.
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PPL (Aeroplanes) -Revalidating outside the UK
Hi All,
I have a JAR-FCL PPL (Aeroplane) which I qualified for in the UK 23 months ago. I am therefore due to revalidate my license and have the relevant experience hours in place, except for having had my logbook signed and stamped against the revalidation flight for the one hour P u/t.
I have two questions which I would like your help on, and these are the following:
1. I'm living in Spain. Can I have a local examiner at Sabadell sign my log book and sign and date the certificate of revalidation page on my license?
2. Can you confirm if it is SRG1119 that I complete and send to CAA along with payment in order that the CAA log that my license has been revalidated? What is the cost to have my PPL record updated?
Is there anything else that I need to do to ensure my license is valid for a further 24 months?
Many thanks for your help,
NSW.
I have a JAR-FCL PPL (Aeroplane) which I qualified for in the UK 23 months ago. I am therefore due to revalidate my license and have the relevant experience hours in place, except for having had my logbook signed and stamped against the revalidation flight for the one hour P u/t.
I have two questions which I would like your help on, and these are the following:
1. I'm living in Spain. Can I have a local examiner at Sabadell sign my log book and sign and date the certificate of revalidation page on my license?
2. Can you confirm if it is SRG1119 that I complete and send to CAA along with payment in order that the CAA log that my license has been revalidated? What is the cost to have my PPL record updated?
Is there anything else that I need to do to ensure my license is valid for a further 24 months?
Many thanks for your help,
NSW.
Join Date: Sep 2003
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You can have a Spanish JAA Instructor carry out the 1 hour flight and sign your logbook. You can have a Spanish JAA Examiner sign the licence. For simplicity send a copy of his Examiner authority with an SRG1119 to the UK CAA.
I do this the opposite way around renewing the type and class ratings for our Spanish pilots and established from both the UK CAA and the Spanish that it was acceptable both ways.
I do this the opposite way around renewing the type and class ratings for our Spanish pilots and established from both the UK CAA and the Spanish that it was acceptable both ways.
Join Date: May 2007
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Ive read most of this thread but not all, im getting on a bit and tend to read the start middle and end of a thread,please excuse me if i duplicate someone elses comments.Many ppls especially in the current economic climate dont fly as often as they would like in order to keep current, so its bleedin obvious some will not be performing as expected upon their "check flight" with an instructor.Surely we are all aiming for the same goal enjoyable safe flying. We have all read flying mags accident investigations some of which beggar belief and some educational, if an instructor feels a pilot is not up to standard then he must speak out and act for the good of the ppl and us all.Otherwise whats the point in being an instructor if you cant express your views.
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No fee - at least I hope not, as I've just done mine! There's no mention of a fee on the fees list on the CAA website and I'm pretty sure I didn't pay one two years ago, either. Would be a bl00dy cheek if there were, to be honest.
Tim
Tim
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Revalidating PPL in other JAA state
Bose-x,
Thanks for the reassurance that JAA examiner in Spain is entitled to sign my license. I will ask for a copy of his examiner's authority to include, as you have recommended.
TMMorris,
You are absolutely correct, I've checked again on notes page accompanying SRG1119 and it confirms:
Can't fault the help us (relatively) inexperienced PPL's get when we ask for help.
Thank you PPRuNe and PPRuNE'ers
Thanks for the reassurance that JAA examiner in Spain is entitled to sign my license. I will ask for a copy of his examiner's authority to include, as you have recommended.
TMMorris,
You are absolutely correct, I've checked again on notes page accompanying SRG1119 and it confirms:
2 Revalidation by Experience
• Sign the applicant’s “Rating - Certificate of Revalidation” page. Send the completed form SRG 1119 to PLD. No payment to
PLD is required.• Sign the applicant’s “Rating - Certificate of Revalidation” page. Send the completed form SRG 1119 to PLD. No payment to
Can't fault the help us (relatively) inexperienced PPL's get when we ask for help.
Thank you PPRuNe and PPRuNE'ers
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Completing Form SRG1119
Hi Bose-x, TMMorris, anyone else who can help
Having now had the examiner sign and date my certificate of revalidation, I am now ready to send the SRG1119 form to the CAA.
Having read the accompanying instructions, I am still confused as to what are the mandatory fields on the form for my circumstances. I have revalidated by experience, although the flight I did yesterday was in fact with the examiner himself. It was of duration 1hour and 5 mins. Although I had other previous dual flights within the last 3 months, I've counted yesterday as the dual flight for the purposes of revalidation, and had the examiner also sign my log book.
The questions I've got are as follows:
Section 2 - tick class rating, specify SEP (land) A and score out sea. Score out MPA, tick revalidation by experience (SEP) - scoring out TPM only. Put date of qualifying dual flight - 08/08/09
As the PPL license holder and applicant, I sign and date section 2. Is this correct?
Section 3
Certify completion by revalidation by experience.
Tick the box beside class rating, scoring out type. As I only have SEP (land) Aeroplane
Do I tick the pass and the single pilot boxes and add the aircreaf registration and type (C 152)
Also note expiry of current rating, and expiry of new rating (this date examiner has written on license itself).
Examiner has then signed and dated, and entered his examiner's number.
Is this correct?
Section 4 - leave blank as not relevant
Section 5 - leave blank as not relevant
Section 6 - I've read the instructions but as an english native, does the examiner still need to date and sign this section? Seems very strange.
Either I misunderstand the form, or section 3 in particular reads very poorly. If revalidating by experience, it seems strange to have details for pass/partial/fail/incomplete. Should this all just be left blank. Then, would the flight time be relevant, or is this just for a proficiency test?
Thanks for any pointers. Final question I have, will the CAA write to acknowledge processing of the form? I just want to make sure that it is processed by 1st September, which is the current expiry date CAA have on record.
Having now had the examiner sign and date my certificate of revalidation, I am now ready to send the SRG1119 form to the CAA.
Having read the accompanying instructions, I am still confused as to what are the mandatory fields on the form for my circumstances. I have revalidated by experience, although the flight I did yesterday was in fact with the examiner himself. It was of duration 1hour and 5 mins. Although I had other previous dual flights within the last 3 months, I've counted yesterday as the dual flight for the purposes of revalidation, and had the examiner also sign my log book.
The questions I've got are as follows:
Section 2 - tick class rating, specify SEP (land) A and score out sea. Score out MPA, tick revalidation by experience (SEP) - scoring out TPM only. Put date of qualifying dual flight - 08/08/09
As the PPL license holder and applicant, I sign and date section 2. Is this correct?
Section 3
Certify completion by revalidation by experience.
Tick the box beside class rating, scoring out type. As I only have SEP (land) Aeroplane
Do I tick the pass and the single pilot boxes and add the aircreaf registration and type (C 152)
Also note expiry of current rating, and expiry of new rating (this date examiner has written on license itself).
Examiner has then signed and dated, and entered his examiner's number.
Is this correct?
Section 4 - leave blank as not relevant
Section 5 - leave blank as not relevant
Section 6 - I've read the instructions but as an english native, does the examiner still need to date and sign this section? Seems very strange.
Either I misunderstand the form, or section 3 in particular reads very poorly. If revalidating by experience, it seems strange to have details for pass/partial/fail/incomplete. Should this all just be left blank. Then, would the flight time be relevant, or is this just for a proficiency test?
Thanks for any pointers. Final question I have, will the CAA write to acknowledge processing of the form? I just want to make sure that it is processed by 1st September, which is the current expiry date CAA have on record.
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I am a little surprised that you are being left to fill in a form that is the examiners responsibility. You should complete the top section. He should complete the rest.
For Lvl 6 if the examiner has been approved for Lvl 6 then he can sign that section and then that is your Lvl 6 sorted. For a revalidation by experience you have the rest right.
The CAA will send you nothing, in fact the only thing they do with the forms is scan and store them, nothing else. I send all my SRG1119 to the CAA in a batch once a month.
For Lvl 6 if the examiner has been approved for Lvl 6 then he can sign that section and then that is your Lvl 6 sorted. For a revalidation by experience you have the rest right.
The CAA will send you nothing, in fact the only thing they do with the forms is scan and store them, nothing else. I send all my SRG1119 to the CAA in a batch once a month.
