IFR in a SEP?
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IFR in a SEP?
I came across a Low Alt enroute chart for the UK yesterday and it got me wondering...
If you're flying IFR in a SEP, how do you FPL a route through controlled airspace? For example; if you take the LTMA, most of the airways have a lower limit starting at about FL090-FL100 and I'm guessing a climb to this sort of ALT in your average C172 etc would be quite a hike?
As an example, I submitted a test FPL to the CFMU validation system for a flight between Cranfield and Le Touquet. Funnily enough, it was acknowledged with "no errors" but in reality, would it be feasable to fly? The route was:
DCT BPK DCT LAM DCT DVR L10 RINTI DCT (FL075)
Now, I'm just a PPL with no ratings so it's just for my own interest
If you're flying IFR in a SEP, how do you FPL a route through controlled airspace? For example; if you take the LTMA, most of the airways have a lower limit starting at about FL090-FL100 and I'm guessing a climb to this sort of ALT in your average C172 etc would be quite a hike?
As an example, I submitted a test FPL to the CFMU validation system for a flight between Cranfield and Le Touquet. Funnily enough, it was acknowledged with "no errors" but in reality, would it be feasable to fly? The route was:
DCT BPK DCT LAM DCT DVR L10 RINTI DCT (FL075)
Now, I'm just a PPL with no ratings so it's just for my own interest
Last edited by TotalBeginner; 14th Jun 2008 at 15:53.
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I regularly fly IFR in a single around the LTMA. You can fly IFR outside of controlled airspace, but generally your flight plan needs to conform to the standard routings published on the AIS website. From Cranfield, you'd need to file DCT BPK N601 DET DCT DVR L9 KONAN and until you were in Class A airspace you would be under a radar advisory service. You must still also comply with the 1500 foot rule so being IMC over central London on a heading direct to DET wouldn't be acceptable. A few times I've had to remind the controller "unable" when I've been given such clearances (or a climb to FL120 without oxygen).
Are you sure your "average" 172 is equipped to fly IFR in the LTMA? Mode S, second altimeter etc?
Are you sure your "average" 172 is equipped to fly IFR in the LTMA? Mode S, second altimeter etc?
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Are you sure your "average" 172 is equipped to fly IFR in the LTMA? Mode S, second altimeter etc?
Probably not. I just used that as an example. I fly an Archer III which does have Dual Altimeters, Mode S etc...
N601 is only available from FL090 and above. Is a climb from Cranfield to FL090 by BPK possible in this sort of A/C?
Probably not. I just used that as an example. I fly an Archer III which does have Dual Altimeters, Mode S etc...
N601 is only available from FL090 and above. Is a climb from Cranfield to FL090 by BPK possible in this sort of A/C?
172's etc will certainly cruise at 9000 feet... it does take a while to get up there, but the service ceiling is around 13,000 feet.
Being unpressurised, though, any passengers (or pilots) who happen to be heavy smokers, will be at risk of hypoxia.
Being unpressurised, though, any passengers (or pilots) who happen to be heavy smokers, will be at risk of hypoxia.
DCT BPK DCT LAM DCT DVR L10 RINTI DCT (FL075)
... would it be feasable to fly?
... would it be feasable to fly?
In terms of levels, you'll be in the way at less than about FL80 in a lot of that airspace, so yes, you do need to climb to FL90 or FL100 most of the time. Bear in mind that airways levels are always round thousands (e.g. FL90 for that route).
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In terms of levels, you'll be in the way at less than about FL80 in a lot of that airspace, so yes, you do need to climb to FL90 or FL100
Bear in mind that airways levels are always round thousands (e.g. FL90 for that route).
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If you're in controlled airspace, you will be told which level to fly at
I've never been told what level to fly at, only that my requested level is "not available". In any case, in the particular block of airspace you're talking about, you'll be given a vector in any case. I've never routed round the north but I'm not sure which way you'd get given as up to 6,000' is occupied by the SID's from Heathrow, Luton, Stansted etc and the levels from FL80 up to FL150 (usually) are the stacks at LAM and BNN and the traffic inbound to them.
Recently I filed Y on the flight plan to get from Lille to Fairoaks, intending to switch from IFR to VFR over DET/BIG as the standard routes seem to copy Farnborough's SID's/STAR's which are the long way round via SFD and GWC but as I approached DVR, the controller gave me direct GWC. When I "complained" about the extra 80 track miles and the longer leg over the sea, they descended me clear of all controlled airspace and cancelled my IFR portion so even an accepted plan doesn't always go your way. (The inverse had worked outbound as I flew at 2400 feet to Biggin then cleared to join controlled airspace from there).
PS To the OP, you use the semi circular rule on airways rather than the quadrantal rule you suggest in filing of FL075. You could always file FL100 then leave it to the controller to work round your slow climb (they will also vector you to keep you inside controlled airspace during a climb if necessary).
I've never been told what level to fly at, only that my requested level is "not available". In any case, in the particular block of airspace you're talking about, you'll be given a vector in any case. I've never routed round the north but I'm not sure which way you'd get given as up to 6,000' is occupied by the SID's from Heathrow, Luton, Stansted etc and the levels from FL80 up to FL150 (usually) are the stacks at LAM and BNN and the traffic inbound to them.
Recently I filed Y on the flight plan to get from Lille to Fairoaks, intending to switch from IFR to VFR over DET/BIG as the standard routes seem to copy Farnborough's SID's/STAR's which are the long way round via SFD and GWC but as I approached DVR, the controller gave me direct GWC. When I "complained" about the extra 80 track miles and the longer leg over the sea, they descended me clear of all controlled airspace and cancelled my IFR portion so even an accepted plan doesn't always go your way. (The inverse had worked outbound as I flew at 2400 feet to Biggin then cleared to join controlled airspace from there).
PS To the OP, you use the semi circular rule on airways rather than the quadrantal rule you suggest in filing of FL075. You could always file FL100 then leave it to the controller to work round your slow climb (they will also vector you to keep you inside controlled airspace during a climb if necessary).
Last edited by Fright Level; 14th Jun 2008 at 22:04.
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Recently went airways to Bonn from EGLD in a PA28.
Had us in the LTMA between BPK and LAM and up to 70 on the way out to DET.
One thing you learn with IFR - what you file ain't necessarily what you'll get!
Helpful controllers all the way
Had us in the LTMA between BPK and LAM and up to 70 on the way out to DET.
One thing you learn with IFR - what you file ain't necessarily what you'll get!
Helpful controllers all the way
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You should be able to easily fly at 12500' in any old bog standard C172 - at least we do it regularly in the USA. Even nipped to 13,500 for brief periods. All perfectly legal of course even without 02.
In Europe I understand that oxygen or European physiology is is different though, so you may need to bring supplemental oxegen with you above 10,000'......or else you suddenly keel over and die.
In Europe I understand that oxygen or European physiology is is different though, so you may need to bring supplemental oxegen with you above 10,000'......or else you suddenly keel over and die.
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I've done Cranfield - Le Touquet airways a few times. What happens in practice does vary a bit. Most usually Cranfield pass you to Luton Approach who give you a direct BPK and a couple of climbs. When you get to around 5000' they pass you to London Control who generally keep you at FL70 and vector you roughly over North Weald and Southend. Once south of the Thames you usually get a climb to FL90 and a DCT TRACA. Nearing the FIR boundary, they usually pass you straight to Lille for a DCT TUKVI or LT and a descent.
Although that's what often happens, it does vary. I usually file the standard route via BPK DET DVR RINTI, but the last time I was taken all the way out towards WCO and cleared to join controlled airspace at FL70 5 miles north of WCO. After that it was DCT CPT and then vectors north of Gatwick towards DVR. Another time Luton couldn't clear me through their airspace, so I routed outside controlled airspace via BKY and BPK, then got passed to Thames who gave and initial climb into controlled airspace and then handed me to London Control. That was better than the other time Luton were busy, so they routed me out to WCO, then back to Woburn and Barkway before passing me to Essex Radar for a tour of Essex.
Those are unusual though - generally Luton do a fantastic job of seamlessly threading us into the system through a pretty direct route. Being slow and poor climbers compared to the rest of the traffic, we must be a pain in the a**e, but they never grumble.
Incidentally, I have taken a really old 172 up to FL100 in the airways. They're not the best climbers, but they do get there. Eventually.
Although that's what often happens, it does vary. I usually file the standard route via BPK DET DVR RINTI, but the last time I was taken all the way out towards WCO and cleared to join controlled airspace at FL70 5 miles north of WCO. After that it was DCT CPT and then vectors north of Gatwick towards DVR. Another time Luton couldn't clear me through their airspace, so I routed outside controlled airspace via BKY and BPK, then got passed to Thames who gave and initial climb into controlled airspace and then handed me to London Control. That was better than the other time Luton were busy, so they routed me out to WCO, then back to Woburn and Barkway before passing me to Essex Radar for a tour of Essex.
Those are unusual though - generally Luton do a fantastic job of seamlessly threading us into the system through a pretty direct route. Being slow and poor climbers compared to the rest of the traffic, we must be a pain in the a**e, but they never grumble.
Incidentally, I have taken a really old 172 up to FL100 in the airways. They're not the best climbers, but they do get there. Eventually.
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Are you sure your "average" 172 is equipped to fly IFR in the LTMA? Mode S, second altimeter etc?
\
Ok, so basically, you cannot fly IFR through controlled aispace without conforming to the airways/ATS routes and their lower limits?
I thought that below FL245 you should fly at a level applicable to the semi-circ rule?
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I also think there is a ~ FL100 min crossing level for the LTMA.
However, it isn't practically all that useful for piston GA because one can zoom underneath at 2400ft without even filing a flight plan. I rarely file airways within/around the UK, but would do so if going say up to Scotland.
I do wonder what happens if somebody took off from say Denham, on an airways flight plan. They are likely to keep you low for a while. In any case, climbing to FL100+ is not going to be an instant proposition, short of an F16. I see a lot of Farnborough jet traffic kept low for quite some miles.
However, it isn't practically all that useful for piston GA because one can zoom underneath at 2400ft without even filing a flight plan. I rarely file airways within/around the UK, but would do so if going say up to Scotland.
I do wonder what happens if somebody took off from say Denham, on an airways flight plan. They are likely to keep you low for a while. In any case, climbing to FL100+ is not going to be an instant proposition, short of an F16. I see a lot of Farnborough jet traffic kept low for quite some miles.
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The semicircular rule applies outside controlled airspace, and these days is pretty much irrelevant.
The semicircular rule applies outside controlled airspace, and these days is pretty much irrelevant.
... Except in the UK where the Quadrantal Rule is applied for IFR flights
... Except in the UK where the Quadrantal Rule is applied for IFR flights
Instrument Flight Rules
32.—...
(2) For flights outside controlled airspace rules 33 and 34 shall be the Instrument Flight Rules.
...
Quadrantal rule and semi-circular rule
34.—(1) Subject to paragraphs (2) and (3), an aircraft in level flight above 3,000 feet above mean sea level or above the appropriate transition altitude, whichever is the higher, shall be flown at a level appropriate to its magnetic track, in accordance with Table 1 or Table 2, as appropriate.
...
Table 1—Flights At Levels Below 19,500 Feet
...
[Resetting Table 2 to allow posting here]
Magnetic Track Cruising Level
Less than 180°: 21,000 feet, 23,000 feet, 25,000 feet, 27,000 feet etc.
180° but less than 360°: 20,000 feet, 22,000 feet, 24,000 feet, 26,000 feet etc.
So the semi-circular rule does exist in the UK for flights outside controlled airspace, it's just that we don't have any airspace in which it can apply. But the convention identical in detail to the semi-circular rule but not in fact a flight rule tends to be applied as a preference within controlled airspace.
