Dear oh dear - Oban crash from last year
Life's too short for ironing
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Join Date: Dec 2001
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Dear oh dear - Oban crash from last year
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/7449653.stm
Pilot of crash plane 'over limit'
The pilot and co-pilot of a fatal light aircraft crash near Oban had significant levels of alcohol in their blood, an official report has revealed.
John Smith, an Essex councillor, his wife Angela, and their 25-year-old daughter Jaqueline, were killed in the crash in April last year.
Mr Smith was piloting the plane while his daughter was acting as co-pilot.
The Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) said instrument failure and poor weather could also have contributed.
The privately-owned single engine Piper Cherokee crashed shortly after taking off from Oban's North Connel airfield on Easter Monday last year.
Poor visibility
The family had been returning home to Essex.
The wreckage of the light aircraft was found the next day on a hillside nine miles away.
The AAIB report said a pre-flight vaccuum pump failure would have knocked out a crucial flight instrument.
Mr Smith was also five times over the alcohol limit for flying, while his daughter was twice the limit.
They had been seen drinking at a local restaurant the night before.
Neither was qualified to fly in conditions of poor visibility which, the investigators say, might have helped them cope with the bad weather they experienced.
Pilot of crash plane 'over limit'
The pilot and co-pilot of a fatal light aircraft crash near Oban had significant levels of alcohol in their blood, an official report has revealed.
John Smith, an Essex councillor, his wife Angela, and their 25-year-old daughter Jaqueline, were killed in the crash in April last year.
Mr Smith was piloting the plane while his daughter was acting as co-pilot.
The Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) said instrument failure and poor weather could also have contributed.
The privately-owned single engine Piper Cherokee crashed shortly after taking off from Oban's North Connel airfield on Easter Monday last year.
Poor visibility
The family had been returning home to Essex.
The wreckage of the light aircraft was found the next day on a hillside nine miles away.
The AAIB report said a pre-flight vaccuum pump failure would have knocked out a crucial flight instrument.
Mr Smith was also five times over the alcohol limit for flying, while his daughter was twice the limit.
They had been seen drinking at a local restaurant the night before.
Neither was qualified to fly in conditions of poor visibility which, the investigators say, might have helped them cope with the bad weather they experienced.
Frightening thought on how long it takes for alcohol to leave the blood stream. I fear I may have done the same thing unwittingly believing I would be ok. Zero it is from now onwards.
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It always amazes me the lack of respect that so many give to flying
. Just another example of the Darwin theory in action, such a criminal shame that innocents have to pay the price too! Flying is demanding enough sober (thats one of the features that makes it so much fun). Why push yer luck
?
. Just another example of the Darwin theory in action, such a criminal shame that innocents have to pay the price too! Flying is demanding enough sober (thats one of the features that makes it so much fun). Why push yer luck?
Frightening thought on how long it takes for alcohol to leave the blood stream. I fear I may have done the same thing unwittingly believing I would be ok. Zero it is from now onwards.
In a previous job when I went to work for the railway we were given comprehensive information concerning how long it took for alcohol to dissipate from the body.
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According to the report the vacuum pump failed with the consequence that the AI would have given wrong readings. Could the pilots have not then referred to the Turn Coordinator and HSI both of which are electically driven and so would have been unaffected by the vacuum pump failure?
Pardon me, I'm just a stude.
Pardon me, I'm just a stude.
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Just blow into this, sir.
Just some questions that this case may throw up
What powers do Scottish police forces have to go airside and breathalyse a pilot before flying? Its not a public road as such.
Also how do you prove that the person suspected of drinking is actually going to commit aviation? Keys in the ignition is usually good enough to pin a driver, however for private flying, the circumstances would be different.
A squad of Highland Constabulary's finest (hah!) breathalysing pilots at Glenforsa on a sunny weekend afternoon for example may be regarded as heavy-handed but following this case others may take a different view.
What powers do Scottish police forces have to go airside and breathalyse a pilot before flying? Its not a public road as such.
Also how do you prove that the person suspected of drinking is actually going to commit aviation? Keys in the ignition is usually good enough to pin a driver, however for private flying, the circumstances would be different.
A squad of Highland Constabulary's finest (hah!) breathalysing pilots at Glenforsa on a sunny weekend afternoon for example may be regarded as heavy-handed but following this case others may take a different view.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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David.
The problem is knowing the vac pump has failed. Meanwhile the unfortunate pilot is following a topling horizon. He may only have seconds to react.
Piesupper.
That's totally inappropriate.
DO
The problem is knowing the vac pump has failed. Meanwhile the unfortunate pilot is following a topling horizon. He may only have seconds to react.
Piesupper.
That's totally inappropriate.
DO
What powers do Scottish police forces have to go airside and breathalyse a pilot before flying? Its not a public road as such.
Also how do you prove that the person suspected of drinking is actually going to commit aviation? Keys in the ignition is usually good enough to pin a driver, however for private flying, the circumstances would be different.
A squad of Highland Constabulary's finest (hah!) breathalysing pilots at Glenforsa on a sunny weekend afternoon for example may be regarded as heavy-handed but following this case others may take a different view.
Also how do you prove that the person suspected of drinking is actually going to commit aviation? Keys in the ignition is usually good enough to pin a driver, however for private flying, the circumstances would be different.
A squad of Highland Constabulary's finest (hah!) breathalysing pilots at Glenforsa on a sunny weekend afternoon for example may be regarded as heavy-handed but following this case others may take a different view.
I do NOT think the boys in blue arriving at the local airfield for a mass breathalyser is the way to go. 99% of pilots have the common sense to know that alcohol and flying don't mix too well.
Also you have to recognise that you have a vacuum pump failure. Having had one myself the first thing I noticed was unusual indications from the AH and then when I checked the suction it was down at zero.
By the way, I think the correct description is limited panel rather than partial panel.
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There is also some doubt as to the method of identifying alcohol in a deceased person's body. Its not as clear cut as the AAIB report states. Have a look at the forum on the other side.
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“99% of pilots have the common sense to know that alcohol and flying don't mix too well.”
I agree with this, but most pilots think 8 hours bottle to throttle is ok. Some associates of mine were commenting about the amount they had drunk the night before (with pictures) and flew back the following morning. When I commented on it I got a confused, we felt fine. My guess is they were well over the limit but got away with it. I would not be surprised if the same was true in this case, but the failure caught them out.
Rod1
I agree with this, but most pilots think 8 hours bottle to throttle is ok. Some associates of mine were commenting about the amount they had drunk the night before (with pictures) and flew back the following morning. When I commented on it I got a confused, we felt fine. My guess is they were well over the limit but got away with it. I would not be surprised if the same was true in this case, but the failure caught them out.
Rod1
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What makes anyone think that being over the (very low) alcohol limit was the reason for losing control in IMC with a failed vacuum pump and no IMC rating?
DB6 Good point but would excess alcohol in one's system be inclined to obscure good judgement and decide to embark on the flight in the first place? The question we must ask is was this pilot aware that he was (allegedly) over the limit after imbibing the night before?