Essex to Stornaway
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Essex to Stornaway
I will soon be flying from just east of the London city zone to Stornaway in my RV 6. I want to fly on a good weather day and get to FL 100ish. The biggest controlled airspace in my way that I'm not familiar with is the Scottissh TMA over Glasgow and Edinburgh. I have looked up the TMA airspace class and have found that they are class D and not A, which surprised me as I thought they were class A and part of the airways. Anyway I would ideally like to cross the Scottish TMA at a high altitude if possible. Would anyone have any comments or experiences in this.
Many thanks
Steve
Many thanks
Steve
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Call them
If its class D then call them on the radio en route.
if you think there is a risk of them saying no due to traffic, then phone them first and check.
I fly over Luton and Stansted a few times a year and it seems to me that if you call them in good time, do as they say and sound and act professionally then they will be very obliging.
Good luck
if you think there is a risk of them saying no due to traffic, then phone them first and check.
I fly over Luton and Stansted a few times a year and it seems to me that if you call them in good time, do as they say and sound and act professionally then they will be very obliging.
Good luck
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Thanks for the reply, I have been through control zones as well ok and as you said they always help if they can, I just wondered if anyone had managed to go through the Scottish TMA VFR. I'm based under the London TMA and would never get it here although apparently the London TMA is class A. It would be nice to not have to descend and go under.
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If you are talking to Scottish on the way north then ask them to pass your details to Glasgow (or Edinburgh). If they can help they will help. A transponder helps but is not usually essential.
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I did Denham-Stornoway-Faroes last summer in a PA28-180. We stopped at Carlisle en-route. Initial routing was Harrogate, then over the Pennines at FL65 IMC. After Carlisle we routed west of Glasgow and up through the islands. My companion is based on Stornoway and he says this is the best route, he's tried several. We had a Radar advisory up to Carlisle, then FIS from Scottish Info thereafter, they're really good. The route up through the islands is absolutely stunning, we were partly IMC but when there was a break in the cloud it revealed spectacular views.
If you can, go up to the Faroes and try the waterfall approach.
TheOddOne
If you can, go up to the Faroes and try the waterfall approach.
TheOddOne
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Sounds great. Im really looking foward to it. If I do a fuel stop then the height and transit through the TMA wouldn't be needed but Im thinking about doing it in one leg. The RV can cruise at about 16oKts ok so flight time would only be about 3 hrs ish. Don't have the option of IMC though as I'm not rated and the RV is a permit plane so VFR only. If I do a fuel stop then routing over the islands would be nice.
Just wondering if anyone has flown through the scottish TMA VFR.
Cheers
steve
Just wondering if anyone has flown through the scottish TMA VFR.
Cheers
steve
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fl 100 - jeeeeeeezzz i get a nose bleed in the Stearman above 500ft - sounds like a "go to" type of flight plan - wheres the fun in that - if you get stuck or have any problems in Stornoway then holler.... I set up the handling for Highland over their a good few years ago and the oracle "Chandy" is still their - jim'll fix it for STO.... - have a great time.... 
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Steveking
Another option might be to stay on the East coast - say Newcastle - St Abbs - Perth/Dundee/Glenrothes then Inverness or Oban before crossing to Stornoway.
I instruct up here in North Eastern Scotland but have not yet flown VFR in the Edinburgh / Glasgow "TMA corridors" (did my IR there though!).
You could 'phone Tayside Aviation at Dundee / Glenrothes, or the guys at Cumbernauld or Scottish Aero Club at Perth (Scone). I know that alot of them fly where you are planning.
By the way, RAF Leuchars is just across the water from Dundee and RAF Kinloss & Lossiemouth are just east of Inverness. Leuchars & Lossie will provide LARS during the week.
Enjoy your adventure!
Regards
PS If you are at Stornoway why not visit the other islands like Orkney / Benbecula / Tiree etc!
Another option might be to stay on the East coast - say Newcastle - St Abbs - Perth/Dundee/Glenrothes then Inverness or Oban before crossing to Stornoway.
I instruct up here in North Eastern Scotland but have not yet flown VFR in the Edinburgh / Glasgow "TMA corridors" (did my IR there though!).
You could 'phone Tayside Aviation at Dundee / Glenrothes, or the guys at Cumbernauld or Scottish Aero Club at Perth (Scone). I know that alot of them fly where you are planning.
By the way, RAF Leuchars is just across the water from Dundee and RAF Kinloss & Lossiemouth are just east of Inverness. Leuchars & Lossie will provide LARS during the week.
Enjoy your adventure!
Regards
PS If you are at Stornoway why not visit the other islands like Orkney / Benbecula / Tiree etc!
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If you want to go through the Scottish TMA at FL100 then (a) you must have a transponder (mandatory above 6000ft) and (b) you must expect radar vectors to get you round all the climbing/descending traffic out of/into Glasgow/Edinburgh/Prestwick. All in all I'd say this is an extremely risky venture if you're not IMC-rated because the chances of being fully VMC at FL100 are low whatever the time of year.
I'd suggest if you want to stay high for fuel economy reasons then the best bet is get yourself to Dean Cross then route direct Turnberry (max FL85, partly in Scottish TMA), then via FULMA (edge of Scottish TMA) and whatever route you fancy from there north to Stornoway.
Have a think about refuelling at Oban - great place, fuel cheaper than Stornoway!
NS
I'd suggest if you want to stay high for fuel economy reasons then the best bet is get yourself to Dean Cross then route direct Turnberry (max FL85, partly in Scottish TMA), then via FULMA (edge of Scottish TMA) and whatever route you fancy from there north to Stornoway.
Have a think about refuelling at Oban - great place, fuel cheaper than Stornoway!
NS
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I agree with " the odd one" go West and up through the Islands, it is fantastic and Scottish provide an excellant service.
After fuelling at Oban (if you do) then its nice to have a pitstop at Broadford on the Isle of Skye and stretch your legs before nipping up the last leg to Stornaway.
In the past I have done my flying in this area at much lower levels due to the amount of chatter from the lads up high, it can get a bit busy and its nice to enjoy the scenery without the radio going non-stop in your ears.
Have a great flight, you will love it...
After fuelling at Oban (if you do) then its nice to have a pitstop at Broadford on the Isle of Skye and stretch your legs before nipping up the last leg to Stornaway.
In the past I have done my flying in this area at much lower levels due to the amount of chatter from the lads up high, it can get a bit busy and its nice to enjoy the scenery without the radio going non-stop in your ears.
Have a great flight, you will love it...
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Suggest DCS TRN FULMA drct STN, at or below FL055 work myself on Scottish info, if above that one of our radar sectors will give you a service depending on traffic loading. Have a great flight,may talk soon.
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Thanks fisbangwallop, I take it from your post although you recommend FL55 it is possible to go into the Scottish TMA VFR. I'm curious if I can or not. On a recent visit to NATS I spoke to London Info who informed me that I could get an Airways crossing clearence VFR for an airway that leads into Manchester so I may do that as well.
PS The NATs is well worth a visit. Very interesting.
PS The NATs is well worth a visit. Very interesting.
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Albeit routing only from Carlisle, but I have had no problem with getting a transit across the southern part of the Scottish TMA at around FL70 (IIRC) to route something similar to TRN - TABIT - BRUCE then DCT to Stornoway. Call in good time, of course, and as NorthSouth said, be prepared for vectoring.
Any VMC gives spectacular views on this route!
Any VMC gives spectacular views on this route!
PPRuNe Bashaholic
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If you want to transit the TMA VFR, there are a few things to consider which will ease your passage.
Firstly, avoid the peak times, since within them the airspace will most likely be running at capacity and you might not get a clearance for safety reasons. Capacity traffic allows a controller to be able to cope with the level of aircraft within the airspace and handle unforeseen problems such as emergencies. As a VFR aircraft will not figure in the predicted traffic loads, you will be an extra and might not be accommodated as you might be the one which tips the scales and causes an overload. The peak times are 0700-1000 Local and 1600-2100 Local. They are not guaranteed however, and it might be busy outwith these periods. Similarly, it will sometimes be possible to get a clearance within the peak times. All of it is down to the situation existing when you make your call.
If you want a better chance of transit, do as others have suggested, and route around the Southern part via the area of the TRN VOR. If you try and fly up over Glasgow and Edinburgh you will start getting mixed up in arrival traffic, departure traffic, and holding traffic. This will possibly involve extensive vectors since they are the majority flow and you will be a minority.
If flying above 6000'ALT, then know the IFR waypoints within the TMA, as your clearance might involve routing via them. Controllers will use 5 letter designators or navigational aids, they won't use VRPs or geographical features above this altitude, since they are TMA controllers and not airfield ones. At or below 6000'ALT, the main part of the TMA is delegated to Prestwick, Glasgow, and Edinburgh Approach controllers. They will know where you are talking about if you use normal VFR navigation techniques and features.
Remember the Transition Altitude, which is 6000'ALT.
If you plan to cross an Airway somewhere on your route, make sure it is a Class D one. You won't get any clearance to cross Class A Airways when flying VFR. If you take the Eastern route suggested by some, you will have to bear this in mind and descend below the appropriate base level when you cross P600.
Good luck, and you might find the weather up here is better a lot more than you might think. Certainly the last few months have had extended periods of wall to wall sunshine
Firstly, avoid the peak times, since within them the airspace will most likely be running at capacity and you might not get a clearance for safety reasons. Capacity traffic allows a controller to be able to cope with the level of aircraft within the airspace and handle unforeseen problems such as emergencies. As a VFR aircraft will not figure in the predicted traffic loads, you will be an extra and might not be accommodated as you might be the one which tips the scales and causes an overload. The peak times are 0700-1000 Local and 1600-2100 Local. They are not guaranteed however, and it might be busy outwith these periods. Similarly, it will sometimes be possible to get a clearance within the peak times. All of it is down to the situation existing when you make your call.
If you want a better chance of transit, do as others have suggested, and route around the Southern part via the area of the TRN VOR. If you try and fly up over Glasgow and Edinburgh you will start getting mixed up in arrival traffic, departure traffic, and holding traffic. This will possibly involve extensive vectors since they are the majority flow and you will be a minority.
If flying above 6000'ALT, then know the IFR waypoints within the TMA, as your clearance might involve routing via them. Controllers will use 5 letter designators or navigational aids, they won't use VRPs or geographical features above this altitude, since they are TMA controllers and not airfield ones. At or below 6000'ALT, the main part of the TMA is delegated to Prestwick, Glasgow, and Edinburgh Approach controllers. They will know where you are talking about if you use normal VFR navigation techniques and features.
Remember the Transition Altitude, which is 6000'ALT.
If you plan to cross an Airway somewhere on your route, make sure it is a Class D one. You won't get any clearance to cross Class A Airways when flying VFR. If you take the Eastern route suggested by some, you will have to bear this in mind and descend below the appropriate base level when you cross P600.
Good luck, and you might find the weather up here is better a lot more than you might think. Certainly the last few months have had extended periods of wall to wall sunshine
