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UK NPPL to France

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Old 5th May 2008, 21:01
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UK NPPL to France

Has anyone managed to do this (legally) ? A Dutch pilot in another thread suggests that pilots with their local equivalent just contact the relevant authority - the DGAC in this case.

I switched to the NPPL a couple of years ago to save money on yearly medicals, and though lunch in Le Touquet isn't terribly important to my lifestyle, stupid bureaucracy has always angered me. I suppose if I wait a while my licence will suddenly turn into a European recreational licence and I'll magically be transformed into a cross channel pilot again....

Bernie
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Old 5th May 2008, 21:14
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Well, I thought it was a clear restriction of the NPPL, so if you decide to take the NPPL, then you have to do so, knowing of the restrictions.

out of interest, is it possible to "upgrade" to a full PPL?
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Old 5th May 2008, 21:15
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Yes, the upgrade is possible - I think LASORS has the requirements.
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Old 5th May 2008, 23:53
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simple answer use a 3 axis microlight, with nppl m, you can then fly to most European countries
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Old 6th May 2008, 07:10
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Yes, I know that. And if I use a TeamEurostar I can register it as a microlight and go anywhere in Europe with an NPPL M, or I can register it as a VLA and only go around the UK with an NPPL SEP. Exactly the same aircraft, and exactly the same me.

As I said, bureaucratic stupidity angers me. I assume from the lack of positive replies that no-one has actually done this by asking the DGAC.
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Old 6th May 2008, 08:11
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“As I said, bureaucratic stupidity angers me. I assume from the lack of positive replies that no-one has actually done this by asking the DGAC.”

I think this has been done. I have read several posts on various BBs, and I have bumped into people at fly ins who say they had done it, but as I have a CAA PPL I did not take too much notice. Why not just apply and see what happens, you have nothing to loose. The Micro license did have the same restriction but it got removed because the authorities were being inundated with requests and they won the right to fly.

The new European NPPL (based on our NPPL) is expected to come in next year and will give you the right to fly in Europe anyway.

The weight increase on a Eurostar VLA over a micro is very worthwhile, you could even paint it

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Old 6th May 2008, 12:35
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It most definitely has been done.

I know of one person who gained all the permissions to get from the north of Scotland to Portugal in a homebuilt with a NPPL, so that meant permissions for both aeroplane and pilot.

Unfortunately he only made it as far as France due to weather delays, but not for lack of the neccesary permissions.
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Old 6th May 2008, 13:23
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A friend has a letter from the DGAC which states basically that its the same as a NPPL(M)...

trevor
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Old 6th May 2008, 14:59
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Originally Posted by bern444
stupid bureaucracy has always angered me.
Well, given that you CHOSE an NPPL to save money, you're hardly in a position to complain!

Also, remember what the "N" stands for - it's a "National" licence so it's bound to come with restrictions.

Any mutual recognition is a bonus.
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Old 6th May 2008, 15:33
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“stupid bureaucracy has always angered me.”


“Well, given that you CHOSE an NPPL to save money, you're hardly in a position to complain!”

I think that is a bit harsh. EASA are busy copying the NPPL as a better option than the existing PPL and seem to agree that the existing license is too OTT. Very soon we will get a low cost, Europe wide license for recreational flyers, hopefully with training on permit aircraft from unlicensed strips. Not good news if you run a flying school, but it will save people money and get more pilots into the air.

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Old 6th May 2008, 15:49
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Which as well and good but I believe (cynically?) that it is an attempt to create a 2 tier system of licensing in order to keep us out of the way of the airlines. Part of me thinks that this will end up being bad for us.
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Old 6th May 2008, 16:34
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Well, given that you CHOSE an NPPL to save money, you're hardly in a position to complain!

Any mutual recognition is a bonus.
Of course it is - I'm not stupid, and I knew all the goods and bads before I switched. Nevertheless - I get in a PA28 or an AT3 and fly wherever I want in the UK, but apparently turn into a pumpkin as soon as I cross the channel. And I did rather think that some enterprising person would have sorted this before me, which is why I asked. I had the feeling that the French wouldn't give a stuff whether it was an NPPL(M) or an NPPL(SEP), and it looks like it might be true. I'm quite happy to do research, but there's no point re-inventing the wheel.

A friend has a letter from the DGAC which states basically that its the same as a NPPL(M)...
What's the chance of a look at that letter?

B
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Old 6th May 2008, 20:16
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Don't forget to get permission from the UK Authorities also. Many seem to overlook that requirement.

A failure to do so would be a lovely get out clause for the insurance company.

Regards,

DFC
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Old 6th May 2008, 20:54
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Which as well and good but I believe (cynically?) that it is an attempt to create a 2 tier system of licensing in order to keep us out of the way of the airlines. Part of me thinks that this will end up being bad for us.
I think Bose will be proven correct on this. Oh for the "equal access for all" attitude in the USA...
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Old 6th May 2008, 23:48
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NPPL

The chap leading the CAA negotiations within EASA gave a presentation to the GAPAN/CFS seminar some weeks ago. He appeared gob smacked to be told that a great many private pilots used their private privileges seriously as a means of transport, throughout Europe, often on business. He was sent away with a flea in his ear.

DFC

Why should an NPPL ask the CAA if they can fly in France. If the french say yes then all power to the elbow. The CAA would be chuffed to bits, I should think. Their baby will have been recognised at long last.
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Old 7th May 2008, 08:20
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Well, given that you CHOSE an NPPL to save money, you're hardly in a position to complain!
A bit unfair, there is quite a cohort of NPPLs who had no option. When you get older and your class 2 is harder to maintain, you may well be faced with a similar choice.
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Old 7th May 2008, 08:34
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DFC

Why should an NPPL ask the CAA if they can fly in France. If the french say yes then all power to the elbow. The CAA would be chuffed to bits, I should think. Their baby will have been recognised at long last.
Look up the privileges of the NPPL in Schedule 8 of the ANO.

Note the bit about flying outside the UK.

Note also that the UK only extends to 3nm from the coast.

When you are 4nm south of St. Cathren's point heading for France you are outside the UK, not in French airspace and need permisison from the authority whose airspace you are in.

I am sure that it would be given without any problem but the laqck of such a permission could be used by an insurance company to avoid paying out.

Many pilots wrongly assume that ratings limited to the UK can be automatically used up to the FIR boundary. Unfortunately that is not the case when the FIR boundary is more than 3nm from the coast.

Regards,

DFC
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Old 7th May 2008, 10:04
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Originally Posted by effortless
A bit unfair, there is quite a cohort of NPPLs who had no option. When you get older and your class 2 is harder to maintain, you may well be faced with a similar choice.
In a case where the holder is constrained by circumstance then they can moan! If it's an economic choice, then they have no case to answer.

Similar to my choice to save money on my car insurance by choosing TPFT - if I break a windscreen, I can't complain about not having a free replacement (as I would have done with comprehensive cover).
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Old 7th May 2008, 20:19
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In a case where the holder is constrained by circumstance then they can moan! If it's an economic choice, then they have no case to answer.
Since it's me we're talking about here, I'd just like to say that it was easier to do the money part of the reason for changing, rather that the gall stone operation, the blood pressure problems, the age - 60 - so medicals every year, etc. There's always someone on forums who like to make glib comments, usually because they are loud mouthed and don't know the answer to the question.

I shall email the DGAC and see what they say - provided I can work out how to say what I want to say in French - and if I get a positive result, I shall put it to the CAA. And if people aren't nasty to me, I'll post it here.

B
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Old 8th May 2008, 15:45
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Copy email ref flying to France on an NPPL, try and get a reply giving you blanket cover

Bonjour,
Afin de pouvoir vous répondre correctement, pourriez-vous m'adresser la
copie de vos licences.
Merci pour votre collaboration.

Yvette THOMASSET
DAC/N/D2AL
ORLY SUD 108
94396 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX
Tél : 01 69 57 74 68/ Fax : 01 69 57 74 71
Mèl : [email protected]
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