Now Thielert is dead.. what plane for cheap flying?
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According to Cirrus, the useful load for the base model with full tanks is 282kg
Full TKS is about 50kg, a turbo (TB21) another 50kg, very roughly, so you are down to a 2-seater, but a very mission capable one: full de-ice and FL250 ceiling.
The Malibu will carry 4 and bags at up to FL250 and over 1200nm at 220kts TAS. I did Paris to Guernsey on Saturday in 50mins. Thats on a 350hp engine derated to 310hp and doing 17GPH LOP
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It holds 120 US gal with standard range tanks and 160 US gal with long range.
Hot prop and boots, certified for known icing. Dual everything.
Without checking the POH it works out 4 and bags for full fuel and if 6 people the fuel load has to come down but to something that is still bladder busting.
I am going to Sweden next week 4:10hrs 850nm 63 US gal of fuel according to flitestar.
Hot prop and boots, certified for known icing. Dual everything.
Without checking the POH it works out 4 and bags for full fuel and if 6 people the fuel load has to come down but to something that is still bladder busting.
I am going to Sweden next week 4:10hrs 850nm 63 US gal of fuel according to flitestar.
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You need to be more specific with those figures bose x. 1200nm range to zero fuel or with U.S. business aircraft reserves?
What is the TAS and payload with 120 and 160USG aboard?
What is the TAS and payload with 120 and 160USG aboard?
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Then there's always the Piper Archer II...Some 430 kg useful load on 180 hp; that's 300 kg with full tanks. And the newer specimens are still < 20 years old. Then you get 600 nm range with reserves, doing some 115 kts and 29 l/h at 65% lean-to-peak FL0-a-bit (POH figures = optimistic).
Not all that fast for sure, but quite a bit of useful load.
Not all that fast for sure, but quite a bit of useful load.
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Archer II
Yes, the Archer II is a nice, simple machine (fixed prop & gear) so folk can fly it straight after getting their licence without 'differences' training. 300kgs might just do for 2 mixed couples but probably not for 4 middle-aged blokes.
TOO
TOO
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You need to be more specific with those figures bose x. 1200nm range to zero fuel or with U.S. business aircraft reserves?
What is the TAS and payload with 120 and 160USG aboard?
What is the TAS and payload with 120 and 160USG aboard?
It has a 7hr range to empty on standard tanks at FL210 doing a TAS of 220kts.
W&B I will need the POH for I am afraid.
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Now Thielert is dead..
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Sorry - thread creep about the Malibu, but I can't let it go.
No it isnt. If it is a Malibu, then it has a Continental TSIO-520BE1G which if you look at the TCDS is rated at 310 Hp. If it is a Malibu Mirage then it has a Lycoming which is actually rated at 350 hp.
But more seriously-
Total rubbish I'm afraid. I would go and have a serious look at the POH. Do it now, before you fly it again.
Typical useful load on an equipped Malibu is in the range of 1190 to about 1300 lbs. I did once come across one that had 1335 lbs, but nobody seemed to know why! The factory quote something like 16/1700 lbs, but it is a total work of fiction - presumably an aircraft with nothing in it.
Some example loads assuming an average useful load of 1250 lbs.
120 US gallons of fuel = 120 x 6 lbs = 720 lbs.
Average useful load of 1250 lbs - 720 lbs = 530 lbs available for people/bags/stuff.
Or put another way, 3 x 176 lbs people and no bags!
160 US gallons of fuel = 160 x 6 lbs = 960 lbs.
Average useful load of 1250 lbs - 960 lbs = 290 lbs available for people/bags/stuff.
Or put another way, Not even 2 people.....................
OK, Lets assume I am wrong and it is the most exceptional and lightest Malibu in the world so the useful load is 1400 lbs (No chance...!)
120 gallons = 720 lbs. 1400 - 720 = 680 lbs. or 4 x 170 lb people/no bags.
160 gallons = 960 lbs. 1400 - 960 = 440 lbs. or 2 people and some luggage.
Like many other aircraft the Malibu is seriously compromised for useful load with full fuel.
Thats on a 350hp engine derated to 310hp
But more seriously-
It holds 120 US gal with standard range tanks and 160 US gal with long range.
Hot prop and boots, certified for known icing. Dual everything.
Without checking the POH it works out 4 and bags for full fuel and if 6 people the fuel load has to come down but to something that is still bladder busting.
Hot prop and boots, certified for known icing. Dual everything.
Without checking the POH it works out 4 and bags for full fuel and if 6 people the fuel load has to come down but to something that is still bladder busting.
Typical useful load on an equipped Malibu is in the range of 1190 to about 1300 lbs. I did once come across one that had 1335 lbs, but nobody seemed to know why! The factory quote something like 16/1700 lbs, but it is a total work of fiction - presumably an aircraft with nothing in it.
Some example loads assuming an average useful load of 1250 lbs.
120 US gallons of fuel = 120 x 6 lbs = 720 lbs.
Average useful load of 1250 lbs - 720 lbs = 530 lbs available for people/bags/stuff.
Or put another way, 3 x 176 lbs people and no bags!
160 US gallons of fuel = 160 x 6 lbs = 960 lbs.
Average useful load of 1250 lbs - 960 lbs = 290 lbs available for people/bags/stuff.
Or put another way, Not even 2 people.....................
OK, Lets assume I am wrong and it is the most exceptional and lightest Malibu in the world so the useful load is 1400 lbs (No chance...!)
120 gallons = 720 lbs. 1400 - 720 = 680 lbs. or 4 x 170 lb people/no bags.
160 gallons = 960 lbs. 1400 - 960 = 440 lbs. or 2 people and some luggage.
Like many other aircraft the Malibu is seriously compromised for useful load with full fuel.
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Letter from Diamond received today
Diamond UK have suspended any maintenance work on Thierlet engined Diamond DA40/42's as a "temporary" measure, arguement is that a/c will stack up at Gamston pending warranty work / spare non-availability. Agree that this is "critical" now for Diamond and that they sort it out asap. As for 400 nm trips, my DA40 with 2 + child is perfect and on full tanks. Tend to fly long legs in France / UK at between 5,000 - 8,000 ft which gives TAS of 135-140 kts with range of 5 hours at 5.5 gph ( 28 usg tanks + half an hour reserve ) = 700 nm. Lose some fuel and take another child ! Agree though I would NEVER take 4 adult males even on low fuel. My money is on Diamond buying Thierlet subject to Cessena staying clear but if Cessena do want a slice of the action and keep supply for themselves then don't expect delivery of a DA40/42 tdi this side of 2009.
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I did say the that the POH is in the aircraft and was doing from memory.... 
Part of me saying it was 310hp? I am reliably informed by my engineer that that engine is rated at 350hp in other applications and is de-rated for this application.
Either way it is a very capable machine and even using your figures and trading fuel for weight gives performance way beyond anything else out there for the cost v performance. Put it this way take 4 people and 4hrs fuel on your figures would be like taking 2 people in a TB20 for 8 hours and that is above most of the weather you would encounter.
I also don't need to be talked to like a child. I managed to pass a type rating, obviously going from memory leaves me wide open for abuse.
Part of me saying it was 310hp? I am reliably informed by my engineer that that engine is rated at 350hp in other applications and is de-rated for this application.
Either way it is a very capable machine and even using your figures and trading fuel for weight gives performance way beyond anything else out there for the cost v performance. Put it this way take 4 people and 4hrs fuel on your figures would be like taking 2 people in a TB20 for 8 hours and that is above most of the weather you would encounter.
I also don't need to be talked to like a child. I managed to pass a type rating, obviously going from memory leaves me wide open for abuse.
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I'm sorry if I caused offence - That was not the intention.
I agree totally about the capability of the Malibu, I thoroughly enjoyed working with them. It did however appear (to me at least) that the W/B figures were being quoted as if they were fact where the reality is somewhat different.
I believe from reading previous posts that you are an instructor, so you will understand this is one of the (many) ways accidents can be caused - say it enough times and you start to "believe" it yourself, to the extent that you start to "know" that the aircraft can carry full fuel and people without checking..........
As you rightly say, the best way to consider a Malibu profile is 4 people/4 hours with IFR reserve.
I agree totally about the capability of the Malibu, I thoroughly enjoyed working with them. It did however appear (to me at least) that the W/B figures were being quoted as if they were fact where the reality is somewhat different.
I believe from reading previous posts that you are an instructor, so you will understand this is one of the (many) ways accidents can be caused - say it enough times and you start to "believe" it yourself, to the extent that you start to "know" that the aircraft can carry full fuel and people without checking..........
As you rightly say, the best way to consider a Malibu profile is 4 people/4 hours with IFR reserve.
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POH is in the aircraft so from memory.....
It has a 7hr range to empty on standard tanks at FL210 doing a TAS of 220kts.
W&B I will need the POH for I am afraid.
It has a 7hr range to empty on standard tanks at FL210 doing a TAS of 220kts.
W&B I will need the POH for I am afraid.
Please see my post above, as an Instructor I am fully aware of the dangers of inaccuracy, hence the statement I made above.
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Letter from Diamond received today
I've got a reservation to fly my clubs DA-40 TDI this weekend and although I am fairly sure it's going to be fine, it would be nice to know whether this is going to be my last flight in that aircraft, so that I can say goodbye properly.
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Diamond's last communication to us said that they are "looking at the way forward" or words to that effect.
I wonder what odd Ladbrokes will give me on Diamond buying Thielert's assets? Pretty short, I'd guess.
I wonder what odd Ladbrokes will give me on Diamond buying Thielert's assets? Pretty short, I'd guess.
