Buy A Share Or Just Hire?
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Buy A Share Or Just Hire?
I'm thinking of reactivating my SEP rating and am wondering if it's worth buying a share in something. If I did it would probably be a permit aircraft (or whatever we're supposed to call them now) with two seats, no touring requirement as I can hire for that if the mood takes me.
What are your experiences? Good, bad or in between and what might be the do's and don'ts?
Looking forward to your replies.
PS East Herts area not a million miles from Panshanger if anyone knows of anything of interest.
What are your experiences? Good, bad or in between and what might be the do's and don'ts?
Looking forward to your replies.
PS East Herts area not a million miles from Panshanger if anyone knows of anything of interest.
Last edited by Flintstone; 20th Apr 2008 at 15:45.
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The answer will depend on your requirements and what you can get.
The typical UK rental plane is a piece of junk so people who want something nicer either look for syndicates, or buy their own.
But there are exceptions - some schools have nice modern fleets, and then it's hard to justify a purchase (share or whole) unless you are doing a lot of hours or want longer trips away. A huge part of the case of a purchase is to get a reasonable quality plane, with availability for trips away etc.
If you definitely have no touring requirement then presumably you will not do many hours a year and the case for renting v. purchase will hang entirely on whether you are happy with what you can rent.
The typical UK rental plane is a piece of junk so people who want something nicer either look for syndicates, or buy their own.
But there are exceptions - some schools have nice modern fleets, and then it's hard to justify a purchase (share or whole) unless you are doing a lot of hours or want longer trips away. A huge part of the case of a purchase is to get a reasonable quality plane, with availability for trips away etc.
If you definitely have no touring requirement then presumably you will not do many hours a year and the case for renting v. purchase will hang entirely on whether you are happy with what you can rent.
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FS,
The rental or purchase argument is an interesting one.
Sherburn have just purchased some AT-3's, touring spec with GPS etc. The wet rental rate is £83.00 an hour. Im willing to bet that is hard to beat for a club aircraft. There are other clubs with these aircraft and seem to offer good rates. Would you consider a LAA machine? something like a Europa or an MCR01, Im sure ROD1 will give you the info on running costs etc. A share will obviously give you greater flexibility for trips away etc. Getting a club aircraft for a couple of days may be difficult.
The rental or purchase argument is an interesting one.
Sherburn have just purchased some AT-3's, touring spec with GPS etc. The wet rental rate is £83.00 an hour. Im willing to bet that is hard to beat for a club aircraft. There are other clubs with these aircraft and seem to offer good rates. Would you consider a LAA machine? something like a Europa or an MCR01, Im sure ROD1 will give you the info on running costs etc. A share will obviously give you greater flexibility for trips away etc. Getting a club aircraft for a couple of days may be difficult.
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“Im sure ROD1 will give you the info on running costs etc”
You will struggle to find a group owned MCR01 in the UK. Lots of Europa groups. I would expect the running costs for a Europa to be about;
Maintenance £600
Insurance £900
Hangarage on a farm strip in the midlands is about £1000 (no idea for your area)
You can keep them on/in a trailer and keep them at home, but this would not work for a group. Some are parked outside, but I am not a fan of parking anything outside if there is an alternative.
Fuel per hour £17
Typical purchase price is £25k to £35k. Some good ones about, some not so good.
You are restricted to daytime VFR.
PM me if you want more.
Rod1
You will struggle to find a group owned MCR01 in the UK. Lots of Europa groups. I would expect the running costs for a Europa to be about;
Maintenance £600
Insurance £900
Hangarage on a farm strip in the midlands is about £1000 (no idea for your area)
You can keep them on/in a trailer and keep them at home, but this would not work for a group. Some are parked outside, but I am not a fan of parking anything outside if there is an alternative.
Fuel per hour £17
Typical purchase price is £25k to £35k. Some good ones about, some not so good.
You are restricted to daytime VFR.
PM me if you want more.
Rod1
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Both, but in the case of the MCR only in the UK! Mine was out of action for 6 weeks, but in the rest of the world the remaining 468 carried on regardless with comments that the British were mad. An inspection of all the aircraft (509) showed no fault found but British aircraft have had to fit new brackets anyway.
I got mine back on line in late March but a small number are still grounded.
Rod1
I got mine back on line in late March but a small number are still grounded.
Rod1
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I was in the same situation earlier this year and went down the LAA group route.
One of the reasons I let my rating lapse was lack of hours and I couldn't justify spending 30 minutes of the hour or so I could afford each month doing a club check and there was no point in renewing just to let it lapse again in another 2 years.
When I looked into renewing I did the maths and the group costs for me are £45 a month and £35 an hour, so if I only do one hour a month it is not that much cheaper. However for the price of two club rental hours I can get just under 4 hours on the group aircraft and so am more likely to keep current and not have to spend money on constant checkouts.
There is also the attraction that I am not flying the standard C152/Warrior and have pride in 'my' aircraft.
One of the reasons I let my rating lapse was lack of hours and I couldn't justify spending 30 minutes of the hour or so I could afford each month doing a club check and there was no point in renewing just to let it lapse again in another 2 years.
When I looked into renewing I did the maths and the group costs for me are £45 a month and £35 an hour, so if I only do one hour a month it is not that much cheaper. However for the price of two club rental hours I can get just under 4 hours on the group aircraft and so am more likely to keep current and not have to spend money on constant checkouts.
There is also the attraction that I am not flying the standard C152/Warrior and have pride in 'my' aircraft.
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If you definitely have no touring requirement then presumably you will not do many hours a year...
I'm tending toward something unusual. To be honest if an Isaacs Fury came up tomorrow I'd take it (I know, single seat) but in the absence of a selfish aircraft a basic two-seater will suit.
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Well, you've got a bunch of replies both here and on Flyer. But it's always better to spell out the requirement in detail. If you are after renting something unusual that narrows things considerably.
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I think flying fits into two categories:
1. Flying something challenging and interesting - Tiger Moths, Yaks, Husky, Cub, Pitts, etc.
2. Fly a sensible tourer - TB20, DA40 and 42, Mooney etc.
The first group are always fun and a challenge.
The second group are not much of a challenge, nor that interesting for pottering around the local cabbage partch but far better at getting you from A to B at a reasonable speed and without too many concerns about the weather.
I reckon that most aircraft fit into one category with few that cross over.
If you are lucky there are some more specialist schools and clubs that offer aircraft in the first category. They arent on the whole used for ab initio training so availability is reasonable.
There are plenty of schools with aircraft in the second category (although not necessarily the examples given). However, fewer schools have tidy examples that they are willing to let you take away for any length of time.
Plenty of groups with aircraft in both categories.
Unless you have places to go regularly and given your experience and the type of flying you do, you might find something in the first category the answer combined with a bit of hiring when you want to go further a field.
If you prefer to fly something in the first group your options are better. Almost certainly you dont want to fly far so if you are lucky and there is an operator with aircraft of this type far better to rent because availability is likely to be good.
1. Flying something challenging and interesting - Tiger Moths, Yaks, Husky, Cub, Pitts, etc.
2. Fly a sensible tourer - TB20, DA40 and 42, Mooney etc.
The first group are always fun and a challenge.
The second group are not much of a challenge, nor that interesting for pottering around the local cabbage partch but far better at getting you from A to B at a reasonable speed and without too many concerns about the weather.
I reckon that most aircraft fit into one category with few that cross over.
If you are lucky there are some more specialist schools and clubs that offer aircraft in the first category. They arent on the whole used for ab initio training so availability is reasonable.
There are plenty of schools with aircraft in the second category (although not necessarily the examples given). However, fewer schools have tidy examples that they are willing to let you take away for any length of time.
Plenty of groups with aircraft in both categories.
Unless you have places to go regularly and given your experience and the type of flying you do, you might find something in the first category the answer combined with a bit of hiring when you want to go further a field.
If you prefer to fly something in the first group your options are better. Almost certainly you dont want to fly far so if you are lucky and there is an operator with aircraft of this type far better to rent because availability is likely to be good.
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Yup. I've rented two out of three
I thought I'd made it quite clear what I wanted tbh, people certainly seem to have replied informatively. Lots of PM's in both places too. Thanks to all who replied.
But it's always better to spell out the requirement in detail.
I thought I'd made it quite clear what I wanted tbh, people certainly seem to have replied informatively. Lots of PM's in both places too. Thanks to all who replied.
Last edited by Flintstone; 21st Apr 2008 at 00:00.
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When I looked into renewing I did the maths and the group costs for me are £45 a month and £35 an hour, so if I only do one hour a month it is not that much cheaper. However for the price of two club rental hours I can get just under 4 hours on the group aircraft and so am more likely to keep current and not have to spend money on constant checkouts.
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Fuji
So what is wrong with the DR400-160 or 180 for touring?
Far cheaper than a TB20 or Mooney,able to use runways at MTOW that the others can't, no VP prop and retractable gear to pay for.
The down side is it is a little slower but is will still make the South of France out of North London in four hours.
It is also a very green aircraft............... they are growing my next Robin in France as I write.
Far cheaper than a TB20 or Mooney,able to use runways at MTOW that the others can't, no VP prop and retractable gear to pay for.
The down side is it is a little slower but is will still make the South of France out of North London in four hours.
It is also a very green aircraft............... they are growing my next Robin in France as I write.
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Hi Flinstone
I bet you have paid for the third "F" indirectly!!!!
On the serious note, by your requirements as share in a PFA sorry LAA ac which you could cherish seems like a plan. It may be more expensive than renting the club hack but you know what you have got.
All the best
Wide
I bet you have paid for the third "F" indirectly!!!!
On the serious note, by your requirements as share in a PFA sorry LAA ac which you could cherish seems like a plan. It may be more expensive than renting the club hack but you know what you have got.
All the best
Wide
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You could get a share in a Jodel. You can pick up a 1/5 of one for around £3000 (or the entire aircraft for £12000 and sell shares), with £35 per month and £35 per hour wet. It would be fun and much cheaper than hiring.
Rod1
Rod1
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Rod.
I've considered that but it seems to me that finding a home for an aeroplane is perhaps the hardest part of the whole thing. While I like the idea of being in charge there's a lot to be said for joining an existing group. Less aggro.
wrecker.
Thanks but that's a bit far from home.
Wide-Body.
I find it spooky that you know what my third 'F' might be but you're right. By hiring an aircraft from time to time I suppose I have paid for it in some way
I've considered that but it seems to me that finding a home for an aeroplane is perhaps the hardest part of the whole thing. While I like the idea of being in charge there's a lot to be said for joining an existing group. Less aggro.
wrecker.
Thanks but that's a bit far from home.
Wide-Body.
I find it spooky that you know what my third 'F' might be but you're right. By hiring an aircraft from time to time I suppose I have paid for it in some way
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Quite few aircraft shares for sale based White Waltham
Small selection
Yak 52 £5000
Cessan RG £10,000
PA 28 £2000 £62 a month
Jodel £1950 £3 an hour!
Aeronca Champ £2500 £55 an hour
Pop along and look at the notice board!
Cheaper than Renting if you fly at least two hours a month!
Small selection
Yak 52 £5000
Cessan RG £10,000
PA 28 £2000 £62 a month
Jodel £1950 £3 an hour!
Aeronca Champ £2500 £55 an hour
Pop along and look at the notice board!
Cheaper than Renting if you fly at least two hours a month!
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Make sure you do your research about the specific aircraft your are considering buying. I have just been through this process and there is more to it than meets the eye.
PM me if you would like some advice on the process (well, my version of it which just saved me from buying into a very considerable financial liability!).
PM me if you would like some advice on the process (well, my version of it which just saved me from buying into a very considerable financial liability!).