Does anyone know of a good european kit manufacturer of motor gliders?
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Does anyone know of a good european kit manufacturer of motor gliders?
Hi Guys,
I have been doing a lot of reading and research for a plane that i plan on building. I have been taking a look at a load of different companies that offer quick build kits. I still know that i got to put in over 1000 hours of building time minimum which i am prepared to do.
I really like the sport plane known as the Zenithair Zodiac CH 601 XL, but this isn't a glider unfortunately. Then i found the Sonex Xenos which i adore it's a light sport aircraft and motor glider in one, it comes with interchangeble wings. I really like the attractive price, but don't plan on importing a plane from the USA. One thing that i really don't like about Xenos is that it has a 2 piece glass canopy. I prefer the Zodiac one piece 360 degree plexiglass cockpit canopy.
I hope with all you guys experience that you would know of something similar but european made, as buying in europe i wouldn't have to pay any import tax and duty fees.
Can you guys recommend me one
I plan to use the Aerovee 2.1 engine that is offered by Sonex aircraft it is ready for future ethanol fuels from it's specially created aero carb. It's 80HP able to offer 75 efficiency cruising at 150 MPH. The engine in America costs $6450 which is about £3225. The Xenos which comes standard as a quick build kits will cost me $32000 which is £16000 of course once imported would put probably £8000 ontop with tax and shipping. Costs here in Europe as well to buy a plane of this scale would cost a lot more than america which is usually the case with most things. So i was hoping to spend no more than £35000 on a kit from within Europe including VAT. That price would be everything engine, complete airframe kit, lights, avionics, etc.
Obviously the less i pay the better, but do you know of any reliable good proven track record comapnies in europe that have made and sold kits that have 360 degree canopys like the zodiac, interchangeble wings for soaring as a motor glider and sold in at least 200+ units while at the same time affordable, easy to build?
All help much appreciated
Many many thanks
I have been doing a lot of reading and research for a plane that i plan on building. I have been taking a look at a load of different companies that offer quick build kits. I still know that i got to put in over 1000 hours of building time minimum which i am prepared to do.
I really like the sport plane known as the Zenithair Zodiac CH 601 XL, but this isn't a glider unfortunately. Then i found the Sonex Xenos which i adore it's a light sport aircraft and motor glider in one, it comes with interchangeble wings. I really like the attractive price, but don't plan on importing a plane from the USA. One thing that i really don't like about Xenos is that it has a 2 piece glass canopy. I prefer the Zodiac one piece 360 degree plexiglass cockpit canopy.
I hope with all you guys experience that you would know of something similar but european made, as buying in europe i wouldn't have to pay any import tax and duty fees.
Can you guys recommend me one
I plan to use the Aerovee 2.1 engine that is offered by Sonex aircraft it is ready for future ethanol fuels from it's specially created aero carb. It's 80HP able to offer 75 efficiency cruising at 150 MPH. The engine in America costs $6450 which is about £3225. The Xenos which comes standard as a quick build kits will cost me $32000 which is £16000 of course once imported would put probably £8000 ontop with tax and shipping. Costs here in Europe as well to buy a plane of this scale would cost a lot more than america which is usually the case with most things. So i was hoping to spend no more than £35000 on a kit from within Europe including VAT. That price would be everything engine, complete airframe kit, lights, avionics, etc.
Obviously the less i pay the better, but do you know of any reliable good proven track record comapnies in europe that have made and sold kits that have 360 degree canopys like the zodiac, interchangeble wings for soaring as a motor glider and sold in at least 200+ units while at the same time affordable, easy to build?
All help much appreciated
Many many thanks
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In order to fly a homebuilt aircraft in the UK, the design must be approved by the LAA, inspected by them during the build and given a permit to test fly. That goes not just for the design/kit, but virtually every part in it. If any part is not approved, you risk ending up with an expensive garden ornament.
I strongly suggest you check out the LAA approved list of designs here
http://www.lightaircraftassociation....aft%20List.pdf
(all one line)
and JOIN the LAA and your local Strut (local level of the LAA organization, usually meet monthly). You will get loads of really good advice, and hopefully avoid the major pitfalls.
Many designs you find on the internet around the world are not LAA approved, and probably never will be.
Good luck
I strongly suggest you check out the LAA approved list of designs here
http://www.lightaircraftassociation....aft%20List.pdf
(all one line)
and JOIN the LAA and your local Strut (local level of the LAA organization, usually meet monthly). You will get loads of really good advice, and hopefully avoid the major pitfalls.
Many designs you find on the internet around the world are not LAA approved, and probably never will be.
Good luck
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Everything Humaround said. If you join the LAA and give them a call they will give you a full list, plus any that might be going through in the near future. There are even micro light motergilders now!
Rod1
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glidey
Both this thread and your other one suggest you are trying to spend large amounts of money. Fine, you get used to that in flying, but at the risk of seeming overly nannyish, I am concerned that you are more eager to get your own aircraft than you are to get the 'right' aircraft for you & the sort of flying you'll be doing.
It may be that I'm misreading the tone of your posts and if so I apologise. I suppose I'm not used to such boundless enthusiasm, (at least, not with money attached) but you are talking of spending "no more than £75,000 for each plane, i plan to buy a sea plane and a glider".
As suggested before, visit various gliding clubs, look at the BGA website, look into the NPPL & PPL requirements ... get a bit of flying time in ... you wouldn't buy a new car without a test drive, would you? There are many things available but as said above, not all kits are certified over here. Please take Humaround's advice, particularly now you're considering home-building.
In the current climate, it might be worth using £10,000 - £20,000 to get an aeroplane and the remaining £130,000 for fuel ...
Both this thread and your other one suggest you are trying to spend large amounts of money. Fine, you get used to that in flying, but at the risk of seeming overly nannyish, I am concerned that you are more eager to get your own aircraft than you are to get the 'right' aircraft for you & the sort of flying you'll be doing.
It may be that I'm misreading the tone of your posts and if so I apologise. I suppose I'm not used to such boundless enthusiasm, (at least, not with money attached) but you are talking of spending "no more than £75,000 for each plane, i plan to buy a sea plane and a glider".
As suggested before, visit various gliding clubs, look at the BGA website, look into the NPPL & PPL requirements ... get a bit of flying time in ... you wouldn't buy a new car without a test drive, would you? There are many things available but as said above, not all kits are certified over here. Please take Humaround's advice, particularly now you're considering home-building.
In the current climate, it might be worth using £10,000 - £20,000 to get an aeroplane and the remaining £130,000 for fuel ...
Red On, Green On
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Why not just buy a Chevvron 2-32C - one for sale on Afors recently for £8,500 IIRC. Wing fold, and trailer included.
Slightly ideosyncratic, but rather enjoyable aeroplane the Chevvron.
There's also the motorglider variant of the Europa if you like something a bit bigger. Details here.
G
There's also the motorglider variant of the Europa if you like something a bit bigger. Details here.
G
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great planes guys
and with them CAA certified even better
Unfortunately none of them offer one piece 360 degree glass canopies which is what i am really after, do you know any other planes. I have seen the zodiac ch 601 xl is LAA certified and that has a 360 degree canopy, but to my knowledge that is not a glider, i want something which the wings can be changed into a glider. The Europa XS can do that, but again i don't like the glass 3 piece canopy.
anyone know of any others?
TIA
and with them CAA certified even better
Unfortunately none of them offer one piece 360 degree glass canopies which is what i am really after, do you know any other planes. I have seen the zodiac ch 601 xl is LAA certified and that has a 360 degree canopy, but to my knowledge that is not a glider, i want something which the wings can be changed into a glider. The Europa XS can do that, but again i don't like the glass 3 piece canopy.
anyone know of any others?
TIA
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Why not try out those suggested before dimissing them? Most offer very good visibility and in terms of replacement, if ever required, the larger the piece of plexiglass, the more expensive. Imagine having to buy a huge piece to get the shape required, cut out the bit you need, then throw the rest away 
If you're a serious buyer, it shouldn't be too difficult to compare and contrast.
If you're a serious buyer, it shouldn't be too difficult to compare and contrast.
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Or get a Europa M/G (which otherwise fulfills all your requirements, including the wing-swap thing) and convert it to have a one-piece canopy. If you've got money to burn, there are plenty people (I guess including Europa 2004 Ltd. itself) who are willing to do the design, including the structural/stress analysis for you. But since the Europa is a permit aircraft, you are allowed to tinker with the design as long as the LAA signs off on it. And a well designed mod, complete with structural analysis and everything, would stand a good chance of being accepted.
The Europa doesn't do floats, but the Europa factory is still waiting for the day that somebody shows up in one on self-designed, LAA approved floats, suggesting that it is by no means impossible. So with a bit of effort you can combine both wishes in one plane.
Import tax and duty are nothing more than a replacement for the VAT on foreign products, in most cases equal to the VAT that you would pay on domestically produced goods. The only cases where import duty+tax are not more or less equal to VAT would be strategically important goods, where the government wants to support an internal industry or something political like that. Clothing, food and so on. I don't think light aircraft are sufficiently high on the politicians radar for that. Well, maybe if the environmentalists had their say...
Of course, with the current weakness of the dollar it still makes sense to buy in the US, as long as you can get a permit or CofA in the UK, either through the LAA or CAA.
The Europa doesn't do floats, but the Europa factory is still waiting for the day that somebody shows up in one on self-designed, LAA approved floats, suggesting that it is by no means impossible. So with a bit of effort you can combine both wishes in one plane.
as buying in europe i wouldn't have to pay any import tax and duty fees.
Of course, with the current weakness of the dollar it still makes sense to buy in the US, as long as you can get a permit or CofA in the UK, either through the LAA or CAA.
