What is involved in the IMC
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What is involved in the IMC
I am looking to complete the IMC rating, could anyone tell me what i should expect in relation to Ground School and Flight Training.
Plus is there any point if they might scrap the IMCR
Thanks in advance
VFR
Plus is there any point if they might scrap the IMCR
Thanks in advance
VFR
Red On, Green On
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Read http://www.thegreatcircle.co.uk/flighttraining/imc/ for an example of the course content.
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Although these forums are very informative with some great advice I do wonder if you should go to your local school and ask them.
I did my IMC a few years ago and although I have rarely used it in anger I found the training to be a great confidence builder and it improved my VFR Nav so I would say do it regardless of the future of the certificate.
I did my IMC a few years ago and although I have rarely used it in anger I found the training to be a great confidence builder and it improved my VFR Nav so I would say do it regardless of the future of the certificate.
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The IMCR is well worth doing even just for the skills - even if one got zero legal privileges for it.
A typical UK summer day is hazy, and if you are down to 3000-5000m viz that is practically IMC (unless you are flying really low e.g. below 1000ft, and you know the area) and there is no horizon. You are legally VFR on a plain PPL, but you need instrument skills to fly in that.
Plus radio nav is a super capability which transforms the confidence to go places. No more looking for villages, railways, dual carriageways, Nokia factories...
It gives you IFR privileges for UK for Class D-G, and VFR VMC on top privileges worldwide.
The IMCR has 4 years to run but I would bet there will be a solution at the end, most likely in the form of some kind of "EASA IR" with an intermediate module which gives some IMC privileges.
A typical UK summer day is hazy, and if you are down to 3000-5000m viz that is practically IMC (unless you are flying really low e.g. below 1000ft, and you know the area) and there is no horizon. You are legally VFR on a plain PPL, but you need instrument skills to fly in that.
Plus radio nav is a super capability which transforms the confidence to go places. No more looking for villages, railways, dual carriageways, Nokia factories...
It gives you IFR privileges for UK for Class D-G, and VFR VMC on top privileges worldwide.
The IMCR has 4 years to run but I would bet there will be a solution at the end, most likely in the form of some kind of "EASA IR" with an intermediate module which gives some IMC privileges.
Did an IMC course at West London Aero Club last year, partly as a result of the preceding 12 months having been a low hours year for me. I have to say it was some of the most enjoyable flying i have ever done. A truly potent mix of frustration, fear, exhilaration and pure joy (particularly when you finally do a decent NDB hold and approach!). Also, 20 hours next to a good instructor is going to do your general flying skills no harm at all.
I also took the opportuinity to do the course on a more complex a/c than I normally fly, a C182 (normally I fly PA-28's) so killed two birds with one stone by also getting used to the mysterious third lever!
Upon passing the flight test I actually decided not to impliment that rating; my circumstances now mean I simply cannot fly enough IMC hours to maintain my own personal safety standard.
However, what cannot be taken away is the basic IMC training, which gives you a certain level of confidence flying VFR on an inversion plagued summers day or simply using nav aids second nature
I also took the opportuinity to do the course on a more complex a/c than I normally fly, a C182 (normally I fly PA-28's) so killed two birds with one stone by also getting used to the mysterious third lever!
Upon passing the flight test I actually decided not to impliment that rating; my circumstances now mean I simply cannot fly enough IMC hours to maintain my own personal safety standard.
However, what cannot be taken away is the basic IMC training, which gives you a certain level of confidence flying VFR on an inversion plagued summers day or simply using nav aids second nature
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We have the IMC for at least 4 more years. How often do you fly? Would you fly more often if you could fly in poorer weather or in same weather but above cloud? Do you want to be a better pilot? If you only intend to fly a few hours per year it may not be a winner in the value for money stakes until you need the extra skill that you would undoubtedly acquire. In short, Do It! you will not regret it unless perhaps you really cannot afford to fly very often at all. You would only need to revalidate every 25 months.
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The exam is fairly straightforward. The grey Thom book and the IMC confuser should do you just fine. Just remember that the approach minima for the IMCr are in real life exactly those of the IR. The exam and the propoganda will have you believe that 500/600ft are the absolute minimums for IMC holders, which is, in fact, bollocks. If you get a question on DH/A or MDH/A, use the 500/600 rubbish, not the truth. Stupid, but true.
The flying can vary depending on where you do it, but mine consisted of: general handling, climbing, descending, partial panel, unusual attitudes, navaid tracking, SIDs, holds etc.. I think I did almost all the possible approaches, including NDB/DME, NDB/ILS, LOC/DME, SRA, VDF. Holds aren't mandatory in the test, but if you get put in the hold (as I did), you'll be evaluated on it.
My test consisted of flying a POL1W SID out of LBA, then intercepting the 015 radial tracking to Skipton, do a position fix, do some general handing, partial panel, timed turns and unusual attitudes. Then tracked back to the NDB, spent 15mins in the feckin hold and into an NDB/ILS. Went around at DA (the propoganda version) and did a 500ft AAL circuit to land. Job done.
The flying can vary depending on where you do it, but mine consisted of: general handling, climbing, descending, partial panel, unusual attitudes, navaid tracking, SIDs, holds etc.. I think I did almost all the possible approaches, including NDB/DME, NDB/ILS, LOC/DME, SRA, VDF. Holds aren't mandatory in the test, but if you get put in the hold (as I did), you'll be evaluated on it.
My test consisted of flying a POL1W SID out of LBA, then intercepting the 015 radial tracking to Skipton, do a position fix, do some general handing, partial panel, timed turns and unusual attitudes. Then tracked back to the NDB, spent 15mins in the feckin hold and into an NDB/ILS. Went around at DA (the propoganda version) and did a 500ft AAL circuit to land. Job done.
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Just remember that the approach minima for the IMCr are in real life exactly those of the IR. The exam and the propoganda will have you believe that 500/600ft are the absolute minimums for IMC holders, which is, in fact, bollocks. If you get a question on DH/A or MDH/A, use the 500/600 rubbish, not the truth. Stupid, but true.
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I don't have a link to hand (although I should do, the amount of times it's been discussed on here!), but it's recommended in the AIP that you use absolute minimums of 500/600ft for precision and non-precision approaches respectively as an IMC rating holder. However... it's not in the ANO, hence it's not a legal requirement.
If it is a legal requirement, then I'm in the **** for starters. I flew a number of ILS approaches to under 350ft last year
If it is a legal requirement, then I'm in the **** for starters. I flew a number of ILS approaches to under 350ft last year
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Shunter is correct
The 500/600ft thing is a myth, although its what you are taught on the IMC so as the man says, use those figures for the test.
The law is 200ft or 250ft depending on your aircraft.
The law is 200ft or 250ft depending on your aircraft.
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TY
Quote:The law is 200ft or 250ft depending on your aircraft.
I think you will find that it depends on the type of approach, the DA/DH or MDA/MDH is stated on the approach plate for the procedure in use
.
The extra 50ft is for pressure error correction, on a SEP.
WH
Quote:The law is 200ft or 250ft depending on your aircraft.
I think you will find that it depends on the type of approach, the DA/DH or MDA/MDH is stated on the approach plate for the procedure in use
. The extra 50ft is for pressure error correction, on a SEP.
WH
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Definitely worth doing the IMC. I did it a few years ago and have used it a lot since. It is really useful to be able to get on top of the bad weather when there is no class A airspace to stop you. It is also a really good skill builder for general flying. But it is not an IR and you should use it carefully. I don't fly deliberately into bad weather. You also need to maintain your skills since they deteriorate quicker than you might think since we don't fly IFR all the time and it can be a shock when you suddenly need to use them. Good luck.
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It stems from the confused interpretation of the following:
Question is, is the second half of this sentence recommended or mandatory? More than one PPRuNe member has raised this formally with the CAA to be told that it is recommended. (Personally I set myself those minima: I only fly 40-50 hours per year and although I manage an instrument approach once a month or so, I don't consider myself a particularly proficient instrument pilot, and I know i would struggle to continue an approach to 200ft or so. But legally I could.)
Tim
IMCR holders in current practice are recommended to add 200ft to the published minima for approaches, but with an absolute minimum of 500ft for precision and 600ft for non-precision approaches.
Tim
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Soon the concept of the Great British compromise will be a thing of the past and many of our little ways will be lost too. Such a shame... Rules are for guidance but many of the rules are becoming laws and freedoms are being trampled in broad daylight and we seem to be unable to fight back adequately. I did some IMCr traing for a refresher student today in weird up and down draughts but ILS NDB approaches and holds seemed to inspire him when he looked up and he could see a runway just where it should be after struggling through the rough sir in a small light aircraft!
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Go ahead with IMC
I knew there had been debate about the IMC going away - but I still decided to do it, as I still want to fly reasonably when I want, as safely as I can (particularly as I take my family in the plane). Sometimes the weather can catch you out and I wanted some better skills to cope in that situation.
I've not long done the IMC (passed 6 weeks ago) but during the course I learnt a lot and feel more confident flying (and seem to be more competent), to the extent that even when I did the IMC test the weather was not great - cloudy and a 40kt wind at 3,000ft in the hold, 28kts at 30 degrees to the runway and a lot more turbulence than you would want to fly in for pleasure but felt fully in control (incl. landing), even if the wind drift caused me some troubles aloft.
Likewise, feel confident enough to go and do some 'VFR on top' when there are only a few holes (or none) to get back down through.
Even legalities aside, I would have been very unhappy flying in even these not-too-drastic conditions without the training on the IMC course.
Still got a tremendous amount to learn and I wouldn't claim to be any great pilot - but having done the IMC course has helped me be relaxed and in control in weather that is less than good/VFR.
So I would say 'go and do it'
I've not long done the IMC (passed 6 weeks ago) but during the course I learnt a lot and feel more confident flying (and seem to be more competent), to the extent that even when I did the IMC test the weather was not great - cloudy and a 40kt wind at 3,000ft in the hold, 28kts at 30 degrees to the runway and a lot more turbulence than you would want to fly in for pleasure but felt fully in control (incl. landing), even if the wind drift caused me some troubles aloft.
Likewise, feel confident enough to go and do some 'VFR on top' when there are only a few holes (or none) to get back down through.
Even legalities aside, I would have been very unhappy flying in even these not-too-drastic conditions without the training on the IMC course.
Still got a tremendous amount to learn and I wouldn't claim to be any great pilot - but having done the IMC course has helped me be relaxed and in control in weather that is less than good/VFR.
So I would say 'go and do it'
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Full Sutton
Hi Guys,
I am planning to do the IMC quite soon.
I have just been looking at the fast track IMC course at 'The Great Circle' at Full Sutton mentioned in airborne artist's post, which looks quite attractive.
Has anybody done their course and would be able to describe their experiences?
Broomstick.
I am planning to do the IMC quite soon.
I have just been looking at the fast track IMC course at 'The Great Circle' at Full Sutton mentioned in airborne artist's post, which looks quite attractive.
Has anybody done their course and would be able to describe their experiences?
Broomstick.
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Ditto BSP!
Their prices seem very keen (they depend on how fancy an a/c you want to use - fair enough). Anyone any experiences/comments/problems? I'd not heard of this outfit before.
Their prices seem very keen (they depend on how fancy an a/c you want to use - fair enough). Anyone any experiences/comments/problems? I'd not heard of this outfit before.
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People on here always refer to the point that the IMC might be going soon. If this was to happen wouldn't the current IMC be carried over to automatically qualify you for whatever replaces it?
Liam
Liam
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That's at least 4 years ago yet. And what will happen then is currently not remotely clear. Will they simply ban it and strip us of our privileges? Will they just ban new issues? Will existing holders be able to acquire a similar Europe-wide rating either automatically or via additional training? Noone knows.
For the moment just get on and do it. It certainly isn't wasted money and it'll give your flying a whole new perspective.
For the moment just get on and do it. It certainly isn't wasted money and it'll give your flying a whole new perspective.
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As I wrote earlier:
The IMCR has 4 years to run but I would bet there will be a solution at the end, most likely in the form of some kind of "EASA IR" with an intermediate module which gives some IMC privileges.
It's well worth doing anyway.
The IMCR has 4 years to run but I would bet there will be a solution at the end, most likely in the form of some kind of "EASA IR" with an intermediate module which gives some IMC privileges.
It's well worth doing anyway.
