Need help with PPL decision. Denham airport or somewhere close, experience required
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Need help with PPL decision. Denham airport or somewhere close, experience required
Hi I am looking to gain a JAR PPL and need some help. I live near Denham airport in Bucks and recently made some enquiries there.
Both schools were friendly and helpful, but the biggest factor in my decision will be cost.
Cabair have nice planes, newly painted 4 seat Warriors.
Pilot Centre has C152,s that look a bit worn from the outside.
Cabair are charging £10,100 for 50hrs all inclusive.
Flight Centre is charging £5890 for 45hrs instruction
What do you think is best?
I could pay for either out right, but this is my life savings!!!.
Additionally travelling to the US seems an nice option but I can only take two weeks holiday at time. This is my employers policy so I am restricted there.
What about other schools in the area? Do you have any experience with these?
Booker Aerodrome (Wycombe)
White Waltham (Maidenhead)
I think the BA flight school in Wycombe and waltham both use Warriors, but dont know what their JAR PPL costs are.
Thanks
Both schools were friendly and helpful, but the biggest factor in my decision will be cost.
Cabair have nice planes, newly painted 4 seat Warriors.
Pilot Centre has C152,s that look a bit worn from the outside.
Cabair are charging £10,100 for 50hrs all inclusive.
Flight Centre is charging £5890 for 45hrs instruction
What do you think is best?
I could pay for either out right, but this is my life savings!!!.
Additionally travelling to the US seems an nice option but I can only take two weeks holiday at time. This is my employers policy so I am restricted there.
What about other schools in the area? Do you have any experience with these?
Booker Aerodrome (Wycombe)
White Waltham (Maidenhead)
I think the BA flight school in Wycombe and waltham both use Warriors, but dont know what their JAR PPL costs are.
Thanks
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Pilot Centre have an excellent rep.
Regardless of what the outside of the aircraft look like its the quality of the instruction that counts and you'd be hard pushed to do better than Eva at Pilot Ctr.
Regardless of what the outside of the aircraft look like its the quality of the instruction that counts and you'd be hard pushed to do better than Eva at Pilot Ctr.
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Dare I suggest you consider the U.S. option?
Whack off the training in 3 weeks (throw a sickie or take unpaid) then have a nice lazy time back in the UK summer spending your savings consolidating and getting used to the UK way of doing things.
By the autumn you'll be a real pilot and still have change....
Cusco
Whack off the training in 3 weeks (throw a sickie or take unpaid) then have a nice lazy time back in the UK summer spending your savings consolidating and getting used to the UK way of doing things.
By the autumn you'll be a real pilot and still have change....
Cusco
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Try before you buy!!
Take a trial lesson at both Cabair and TPC. My money's on TPC. I'm a stude there and I believe they are the best cost/quality combination for miles. The instructors I've flown with are excellent teachers and the aircraft are reliable.
Aircraft appearance is important but don't be overly impressed by shiney paintwork, many aircraft (152's and Warriors) in UK club fleets are 20+ years old.
Aircraft appearance is important but don't be overly impressed by shiney paintwork, many aircraft (152's and Warriors) in UK club fleets are 20+ years old.
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British Airways Flying Club at High Wycombe has immaculate aircraft and 1st class instruction - out of choice, I'd recommend Dick Thurbin, who has a common-sense based, relaxed style of teaching.
I tried Cabair at Elstree before I learnt with BAFC and came to some pretty straightforward conclusions about Cabair: Not all bad, just too many young boys wearing gold braid, building hours at my expense for my liking.
I tried Cabair at Elstree before I learnt with BAFC and came to some pretty straightforward conclusions about Cabair: Not all bad, just too many young boys wearing gold braid, building hours at my expense for my liking.
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Cabair............No!
There are two very good clubs in your area that I could recomend, The BAFC at Wycombe or WLAC at White Waltham. the BAFC would be at the top of my list.
I don,t know The Pilot Centre a Denham so I cant comment on them however comments above seem to be favourable.
As for Cabair they seem to get most of there business from "new starts" who are totaly new to aviation, this way they can make a lot of money from add on charges and the poor victim ...... sorry student has not got the nouse to know that other clubs don,t charge for such things.
Make a quick phone call to BAFC or WLAC and ask what the TOTAL cost of an hours instructional flight is............. then ask the same question of Cabair, make sure that you get the whole answer there will be a base price + instructor time + landing fees+ VAT.
You will soon see that the BAFC price will seem more expensive at first however once the Cabair "add on,s" are taken into account you will find the BAFC or WLAC to be the best deal.
I have left quality of instruction and aircraft maintenance standards out of this post as I don't have time to open that can of worms.
I don,t know The Pilot Centre a Denham so I cant comment on them however comments above seem to be favourable.
As for Cabair they seem to get most of there business from "new starts" who are totaly new to aviation, this way they can make a lot of money from add on charges and the poor victim ...... sorry student has not got the nouse to know that other clubs don,t charge for such things.
Make a quick phone call to BAFC or WLAC and ask what the TOTAL cost of an hours instructional flight is............. then ask the same question of Cabair, make sure that you get the whole answer there will be a base price + instructor time + landing fees+ VAT.
You will soon see that the BAFC price will seem more expensive at first however once the Cabair "add on,s" are taken into account you will find the BAFC or WLAC to be the best deal.
I have left quality of instruction and aircraft maintenance standards out of this post as I don't have time to open that can of worms.
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One option you might also consider is going to Spain. There are a couple of schools there that teach in English. You won't have the wx problems most studes seem to encounter (and perennially moan about on PPrune....) in this country.
midiman, if you look back at old posts, you will see many examples of people who have paid up front and lived to regret it. things can easily change during your training, you may decide after a few hours that its not for you, or your circumstances may change. if you cant afford to lose the whole lot, dont pay up front!
i am a member at WLAC and so a bit biased, but its a great school, and certainly worth a look.
i am a member at WLAC and so a bit biased, but its a great school, and certainly worth a look.
the whole cost depends on how long you need to complete the course. 45 hrs is the minimum, most take a little longer, mine was 50 hours over about 14 months. if you do well enough to pas in 45 it will obviously cost less than 65.
the grass is generally good at WW if a little bumpy in places. it is hardly ever closed due to waterlogging, and they have 3 fairly long runways. if denham is better for you by all means go there, but my advice would be to pay as you go. you then have the option to change schools if it suits you, and your money is earning you interest in your bank rather than making you nothing in the schools bank, and its not at risk (unless its in northern rock - no, lets not go there!).
the grass is generally good at WW if a little bumpy in places. it is hardly ever closed due to waterlogging, and they have 3 fairly long runways. if denham is better for you by all means go there, but my advice would be to pay as you go. you then have the option to change schools if it suits you, and your money is earning you interest in your bank rather than making you nothing in the schools bank, and its not at risk (unless its in northern rock - no, lets not go there!).
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WW is good you have to join the club (theres a student rate) but the plus side is no landing fees (free to members) plenty of aircraft and with the RAF triangle of runways few days lost to strong crosswinds. Mind you the grass is a bit bumpy in places.
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Denham (Pilot Centre) is definitely a good training school. Excellent instructors and they dont overcharge. It IS worth using the "block booking" scheme. You dont pay the whole amount, but pay for a block e.g. £750 at a time and this give considerable discount. They are a long term family business (they own the airfield). However only do this if you are going to be flying regularly. Whilst the old C152s look tired they are excellent training aircraft and are very cost effective.
Cheers
DF
PS. I learnt there so I am biased
Cheers
DF
PS. I learnt there so I am biased
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Ask the schools what incentives the instructors have to give you decent groundschool and briefings/debriefings.
If the instructors are paid by the flying hour, you will get your ground school in the air - not a great way to learn.
If the instructors are paid a salary, they don't have a disincentive to spend time with you on the ground.
Also, why are you doing a PPL? If it is a life-goal, and for fun, and you are not in a hurry, then go with a pay as you go flying club with good people and nice atmosphere. If, however, it is first rung towards a professional flying career, then best do your PPL at a recognised FTO. You will be trained to a much higher standard and will be ahead of the curve when it comes to your CPL and IR.
If the instructors are paid by the flying hour, you will get your ground school in the air - not a great way to learn.
If the instructors are paid a salary, they don't have a disincentive to spend time with you on the ground.
Also, why are you doing a PPL? If it is a life-goal, and for fun, and you are not in a hurry, then go with a pay as you go flying club with good people and nice atmosphere. If, however, it is first rung towards a professional flying career, then best do your PPL at a recognised FTO. You will be trained to a much higher standard and will be ahead of the curve when it comes to your CPL and IR.
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If, however, it is first rung towards a professional flying career, then best do your PPL at a recognised FTO. You will be trained to a much higher standard and will be ahead of the curve when it comes to your CPL and IR.
Before finally choosing, why not have a trial lesson with each?
One other point. Increasingly these days we find that some students simply won't fit in the C152 either by means of physical size or mass. The school with the PA28 Warrior IIIs might be the only game in town for some people...
TheOddOne
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I am surprised to learn WLAC has FTO status - I thought they were an aeroclub? I believe Cabair is an FTO - though my info is not really up to date as I haven't lived in UK for a long time!
I did my PPL at an aeroclub and I found that when I started my CPL at an FTO I was way behind other students who had done their PPL abinitio at the same FTO. They were almost at CPL level already and breezed through the course.
I did my PPL at an aeroclub and I found that when I started my CPL at an FTO I was way behind other students who had done their PPL abinitio at the same FTO. They were almost at CPL level already and breezed through the course.
Last edited by richatom; 23rd Feb 2008 at 11:51.