Night Qualification as a "get you home"
Don't disagree with anything you say Beechnut. My main gripe is with those people that seem to like scaremongering about night flying and trying to pretend it is too unsafe to do which it is not, providing you follow the rules and have an out if the weather deteriorates.
Here in Australia to fly night VFR you must have 8km vis (5km in daytime) remain above lowest safe by either published charts or 1000' above the highest spot height 10NM either side of track and therefore cloud cover must permit that. Currency requirements are 1 takeoff and landing in 12mths and 1hr flight every 12mths also. If taking passengers then 3 t/offs and landings in the preceeding 3 months is required. There are other requirements regarding providing alternates due weather or runway lighting also as we have extensive PAL lighting here.
I also have had many memorable flights at night such as Adelaide to Canberra or Melbourne etc some 400 or 500 NM and yes plan your route to allow plenty of airports along the way if required. I would hate to see someone being put off the pleasure and convieniance of night flying by a few silly tales of doom and gloom. It is my experiance that it is mainly the airline/ IFR or regulator types that push this nonscence.
Here in Australia to fly night VFR you must have 8km vis (5km in daytime) remain above lowest safe by either published charts or 1000' above the highest spot height 10NM either side of track and therefore cloud cover must permit that. Currency requirements are 1 takeoff and landing in 12mths and 1hr flight every 12mths also. If taking passengers then 3 t/offs and landings in the preceeding 3 months is required. There are other requirements regarding providing alternates due weather or runway lighting also as we have extensive PAL lighting here.
I also have had many memorable flights at night such as Adelaide to Canberra or Melbourne etc some 400 or 500 NM and yes plan your route to allow plenty of airports along the way if required. I would hate to see someone being put off the pleasure and convieniance of night flying by a few silly tales of doom and gloom. It is my experiance that it is mainly the airline/ IFR or regulator types that push this nonscence.
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Mostlytossas
I have never found regulators trying to put anyone off night flying in the UK, in fact the opposite is true.
The regulators allow night rated pilots to fly under IFR in VMC (without instrument qualifications) and offer SVFR where needed.
Unlike Australia, night VFR is illegal in many parts of Europe.
I have never found regulators trying to put anyone off night flying in the UK, in fact the opposite is true.
The regulators allow night rated pilots to fly under IFR in VMC (without instrument qualifications) and offer SVFR where needed.
Unlike Australia, night VFR is illegal in many parts of Europe.
Yes I know it is. That is what I mean by the above comment. The regulators in those countries have disallowed it. Pleased to hear you can in the UK. Fight hard to retain the privledge.
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I never said night flight is unsafe. I would just say that if flying on a real dark night you don't have an escape route for an engine failure. In aviation one should always have an escape route, and here you don't have one. It works in practice, because engine failures are very rare.
The same can be said for flying IFR, or over low cloud ( fog ) over mountains, forrests, water, and so forth. We can't all go flying around in 4 engine aircraft in case we may have an engine failure with no escape route. I t all comes down to planning ( route around mountains etc if possible ) and acceptable risk. There is a risk in everything we do even going to bed. As we are going around in circles on this topic that's it from me. Each to their own and goodluck to all.
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The same can be said for flying IFR,
or over low cloud
( fog )
over mountains,
forrests,
water,
The situations which remain uncovered are
Landing/takeoff over built up areas
Flying on a real dark night
Flying above a forest
Cirrus have an interesting approach
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I wonder how some people get out of bed in the morning, they might stub a toe or spill the tea.
The aircraft does not know it is dark. I have never considered night flight a problem in an SEP and do it on a regular basis. I have done a few business flights where I have not returned from the continent until the early hours of the morning. PO Lights give me 24hr capability.
I view a night qualification as an integral part of my flying privilege and use it fully. At least 10% of my hours a year are at night and most of them SEP.
The aircraft does not know it is dark. I have never considered night flight a problem in an SEP and do it on a regular basis. I have done a few business flights where I have not returned from the continent until the early hours of the morning. PO Lights give me 24hr capability.
I view a night qualification as an integral part of my flying privilege and use it fully. At least 10% of my hours a year are at night and most of them SEP.
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I wonder how some people get out of bed in the morning, they might stub a toe or spill the tea
What you have done is posted your personal attitude to risk, no more. Fair enough. Everybody could post their personal attitude to risk. It's a personal choice.
What you can't say, unless carrying a 3rd gen night vision device and having had some considerable practice with it, is that you have a half decent chance of pulling off a forced landing on a "real night" flight.
An objective difference.
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I was not referring to ANYONE I was expressing a general view on risk assessment. Don't be so sensitive.
You are right I have posted my personal view on risk. I HAVE NOT spent ages trying to convince other people why they should agree with me........
I do not consider flying at night any more dangerous than I consider IFR or flight over water. I mitigate to a level that I am comfortable with and that's it.
I would suggest that those who are considering flying at night carry out there own risk assessment and make a go no go based on their level of comfort.
There are those that deem it an acceptable level of risk and those that don't. What I get fed up of is pages and pages of drivel from people trying to convince us that they are right and flying at night is unsafe.
We all have to make an assessment, simple.
You are right I have posted my personal view on risk. I HAVE NOT spent ages trying to convince other people why they should agree with me........
I do not consider flying at night any more dangerous than I consider IFR or flight over water. I mitigate to a level that I am comfortable with and that's it.
I would suggest that those who are considering flying at night carry out there own risk assessment and make a go no go based on their level of comfort.
There are those that deem it an acceptable level of risk and those that don't. What I get fed up of is pages and pages of drivel from people trying to convince us that they are right and flying at night is unsafe.
We all have to make an assessment, simple.
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I would suggest that those who are considering flying at night carry out there own risk assessment and make a go no go based on their level of comfort.
It's not about risk assessment per se, its about assessment of perceived risk.
The risk of night flying did not increase when I lost some engine power at 500' and survived, but my perception of that risk did.
At the end of the day, if anyone can calculate when an engine may fail or something else nasty might happen, then one would be able to do real risk assessment.
All we can do, really, is to consider our perceptions and then plan a response to these.
This is why we find such diverse opinions about the risks of night flying in a single.
I've been there, done that, looked over the edge of the abyss and changed my view.
But I'm glad I did experience some wonderful night flights and am pleased that others still experience it.
Happy landings everyone.
F3G
It's not about risk assessment per se, its about assessment of perceived risk.
The risk of night flying did not increase when I lost some engine power at 500' and survived, but my perception of that risk did.
At the end of the day, if anyone can calculate when an engine may fail or something else nasty might happen, then one would be able to do real risk assessment.
All we can do, really, is to consider our perceptions and then plan a response to these.
This is why we find such diverse opinions about the risks of night flying in a single.
I've been there, done that, looked over the edge of the abyss and changed my view.
But I'm glad I did experience some wonderful night flights and am pleased that others still experience it.
Happy landings everyone.
F3G
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My opinion, for what it's worth.
Lets not forget that IFR is a set of rules. It has nothing to do with day, night, VMC, IMC, S/E or M/E. If you intend to fly IFR at night, most of the work will have been done on the ground. Its not difficult, in fact I think it's more straightforward.
I think it's worth remembering a couple of points though.
Single engined aircraft are not permitted to operate public transport flights in the UK.
Single engined aircraft are not permitted to fly over densely populated areas unless they can land clear.
These rules are put in place by the authorities, not because a single engined aircraft has more chance of an engine failure, but the outcome of an engine failure can have more serious consequences. In my flying lifetime, I have had two catastrophic engine failures, both of which were over built up areas and both were at night on multi engined aircraft. Clearly there is an increased risk from S/E at night, but as long as you follow the rules and your happy then go for it.
Following those engine failures, I personally would not fly S/E at night any more, but I certainly have in the past and enjoyed every minute of it.
Lets not forget that IFR is a set of rules. It has nothing to do with day, night, VMC, IMC, S/E or M/E. If you intend to fly IFR at night, most of the work will have been done on the ground. Its not difficult, in fact I think it's more straightforward.
I think it's worth remembering a couple of points though.
Single engined aircraft are not permitted to operate public transport flights in the UK.
Single engined aircraft are not permitted to fly over densely populated areas unless they can land clear.
These rules are put in place by the authorities, not because a single engined aircraft has more chance of an engine failure, but the outcome of an engine failure can have more serious consequences. In my flying lifetime, I have had two catastrophic engine failures, both of which were over built up areas and both were at night on multi engined aircraft. Clearly there is an increased risk from S/E at night, but as long as you follow the rules and your happy then go for it.
Following those engine failures, I personally would not fly S/E at night any more, but I certainly have in the past and enjoyed every minute of it.
