Disappointing day
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Daventry
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Disappointing day
Planned to fly Cov to Blackbushe today but just one of those days when it didn't go right.
Plane wouldn't start (probably overprimed by me+very cold day),lots of messing about with batteries,finally started with hand prop.
Mrs MM looking a bit miffed in RHS.
Finally got away,20mins into flight,haze getting worse and cloud developing ahead (all reports were CAVOK),decided to turn back and went by car.
Typical, wx looked great all day from the ground after that.Can't decide if I 'bottled it' or showed good airmanship
.
Good landing though,after my problems last week at Shobdon
so not a total waste.
Perhaps it's time for IMC training,but staying my hand with all this talk of changes there.
MM
Plane wouldn't start (probably overprimed by me+very cold day),lots of messing about with batteries,finally started with hand prop.
Mrs MM looking a bit miffed in RHS.
Finally got away,20mins into flight,haze getting worse and cloud developing ahead (all reports were CAVOK),decided to turn back and went by car.
Typical, wx looked great all day from the ground after that.Can't decide if I 'bottled it' or showed good airmanship
.Good landing though,after my problems last week at Shobdon
so not a total waste.Perhaps it's time for IMC training,but staying my hand with all this talk of changes there.
MM
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: England
Posts: 1,006
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Always remember: Time to spare, go by air.
The viz today was not good. A VFR XC south into sun had a viz of about 2k and perhaps 6k going north. It looked fab from the ground all day.You made a justifiable decision.
The viz today was not good. A VFR XC south into sun had a viz of about 2k and perhaps 6k going north. It looked fab from the ground all day.You made a justifiable decision.
Life's too short for ironing
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Scotland, & Maryland, USA
Posts: 1,146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not that I'm rubbing salt into the wound... 
but
I pulled our plane out at 8.15am under cloudless blue skies, 5 primes and up she started, inspite of the -18'C temp. Taxiied over to meet my ride home again (was dropping the 180 off in the north of the state for maintenance work), shut down the 180, 5 mins later was ready to go, 4 primes this time, up she started again, no probs... No damp in the air whatsover, just very cold. Taxied for take off, rotated before the end of the "18" paint on the runway and away we went. Glorious day for flying.
Mind you, I've had to wait since Jan 3rd to get that trip done, weather has been awful and we are up to our necks in snow, so I guess it works both ways
but
I pulled our plane out at 8.15am under cloudless blue skies, 5 primes and up she started, inspite of the -18'C temp. Taxiied over to meet my ride home again (was dropping the 180 off in the north of the state for maintenance work), shut down the 180, 5 mins later was ready to go, 4 primes this time, up she started again, no probs... No damp in the air whatsover, just very cold. Taxied for take off, rotated before the end of the "18" paint on the runway and away we went. Glorious day for flying.
Mind you, I've had to wait since Jan 3rd to get that trip done, weather has been awful and we are up to our necks in snow, so I guess it works both ways
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: n/a
Posts: 1,425
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
20mins into flight,haze getting worse and cloud developing ahead (all reports were CAVOK),decided to turn back and went by car.
Best decision you've made... if in doubt don't be, put it on the ground and stay off the accident stats.
The Original Whirly
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Posts: 4,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Everywhere was promising CAVOK, it's true. But all this means is that the vis is 10km. Going south into a low winter sun it can instantly be half that. And that's before the TAFs start to be even slightly wrong.
I flew with a student from Nottingham to Sywell, and if it hadn't been for the fact that we were following line features, and were in a helicopter so we could slow down and even land if necessary, we might well have turned back. Vis was about 5 - 6 km, and it was hard work. But on the ground - glorious day.
You made the right decision.
I flew with a student from Nottingham to Sywell, and if it hadn't been for the fact that we were following line features, and were in a helicopter so we could slow down and even land if necessary, we might well have turned back. Vis was about 5 - 6 km, and it was hard work. But on the ground - glorious day.
You made the right decision.
Supercharged PPRuNer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Doon the watter, a million miles from the sandpit.
Posts: 1,183
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Definitely good airmanship.
If in doubt, have a read of the AAIB reports of light aircraft crashes in marginal VMC. You'll need a comfy chair . . .
If in doubt, have a read of the AAIB reports of light aircraft crashes in marginal VMC. You'll need a comfy chair . . .
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In my experience, poor visibilty in haze is virtually guaranteed with established high pressure and a southerly or easterly wind drift. It is what I have come to expect and I am not often disappointed, well, erm, that is to say frequently disappointed actually......
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
modelman,
First comment = v good airmanship
The haze you saw from the air could well have been mist / developing low-lying fog that, with the slant- angle you had (out of sun), just looked like haze. The cloud probably was cloud! Tis the weather that is normally pretty standard for a UK winter.
This probably would not have solved the problem for you. Look at the LIMITS that a the IMC ticket would have allowed you. I.E> you would not get to land in fog / mist. So would have had to turn back / divert anyhow.
Look how many CFIT incidents occur every autumn to spring in these situations caused by clots PRESSING ON REGARDLESS.
And for those that will disagree with me and claim that I'm too conservative - I agree. I fly fast pointy things for a job and GA (negligable navaids and no bang-seat for fun). I like the landings to = the take-offs
YOU DONE GOOD
First comment = v good airmanship
Typical, wx looked great all day from the ground after that.Can't decide if I 'bottled it' or showed good airmanship
Perhaps it's time for IMC training
Look how many CFIT incidents occur every autumn to spring in these situations caused by clots PRESSING ON REGARDLESS.
And for those that will disagree with me and claim that I'm too conservative - I agree. I fly fast pointy things for a job and GA (negligable navaids and no bang-seat for fun). I like the landings to = the take-offs
YOU DONE GOOD
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Massachusetts Bay Colony
Age: 57
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Any time your neurons are still inside your noggin so you can think "was that good airmanship or did I bottle it?", it was a good decision. Yeah, you might have made it, the weather might not have been as bad as it looked, you might have ended up missing a great flying day, yadda, yadda, yadda. That's all Monday morning managing.
It's amazing how fast things go from "hey, this isn't so bad" to "Christ, I am truly frightened!!". Flying when you're truly scared is no fun and is totally unneccesary (this ain't combat, after all, it's a hobby we do for fun!) and your brain capacity to deal with the reality of the situation drops by a huge whack, thereby making you even less capable of handling the unfamiliar. i've been there twice and I don't ever plan to let that happen again.
I'm all for pushing the boundaries of capability and confidence. That's what we call "experience" and it's how we grow and learn. But do it at a level that doesn't make your butt clench. When you start to think "hang on a minute, here...", then it's probably time to stop doing whatever you're doing, go get the nearest cup of tea and have a good think.
As my mates and I like to say "when you can see the AAIB report form overlaying itself on your situation, then you're probably in over your head."
I've done both; turned back on what later turned out to be a stunning day and pressed on when I had no business being in that bit of airspace. I might be wistful about what I missed in the former, but I consider myself lucky to have made it at all with the latter.
I know which one I'm going for every time. You did the right thing. Better disappointed than disjointed!!
It's amazing how fast things go from "hey, this isn't so bad" to "Christ, I am truly frightened!!". Flying when you're truly scared is no fun and is totally unneccesary (this ain't combat, after all, it's a hobby we do for fun!) and your brain capacity to deal with the reality of the situation drops by a huge whack, thereby making you even less capable of handling the unfamiliar. i've been there twice and I don't ever plan to let that happen again.
I'm all for pushing the boundaries of capability and confidence. That's what we call "experience" and it's how we grow and learn. But do it at a level that doesn't make your butt clench. When you start to think "hang on a minute, here...", then it's probably time to stop doing whatever you're doing, go get the nearest cup of tea and have a good think.
As my mates and I like to say "when you can see the AAIB report form overlaying itself on your situation, then you're probably in over your head."
I've done both; turned back on what later turned out to be a stunning day and pressed on when I had no business being in that bit of airspace. I might be wistful about what I missed in the former, but I consider myself lucky to have made it at all with the latter.
I know which one I'm going for every time. You did the right thing. Better disappointed than disjointed!!
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,576
Received 425 Likes
on
224 Posts
Modelman,
Ever heard the saying: "Better to be on the ground wishing you were up in the air, rather than up in the air wishing..."
You get the idea? If in doubt, don't fly out.
Ever heard the saying: "Better to be on the ground wishing you were up in the air, rather than up in the air wishing..."
You get the idea? If in doubt, don't fly out.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Derbyshire
Age: 67
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sound advice
Bloody hell... all these people singing off the same hymn sheet . ? in here ? un heard of ! Good to see the sound advice people are giving, not being ridiculed for a change. Thanks guys
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe our little friend from Belgium will be around shortly with a dissonant opinion...
But as far as I'm concerned, well done. I don't know too much about specific UK weather, but here in the Netherlands after a high pressure area has been stationary, close by, for a few days, particularly in winter, there's a lot of haze developing below 1500". From the ground straight up, just bright blue skies. From the sky down, murky as hell. You can recognise these conditions by looking at the horizon from the ground: if there's a distinctly different color in the atmosphere about two fingers up from the horizon you've got to take care.
It's usually caused by an inversion layer trapping stuff below it. So it helps to pay attention to the temperature vs. altitude gradients in the weather charts. The metoffice forms 414/415 (or the UK equivalents) are good for this but you can also use sites like www.wetterzentrale.de/topkarten to look specifically for the temperature graphs from balloon ascents.
To make matters worse, in light wind conditions the preferential runway at Rotterdam is 24, which is exactly into the setting sun. Fortunately ATC recognises these conditions and turn the lights on early. So far I've managed but in conditions like this it would probably be safer to ask for 06 and accept a slight tailwind on landing.
But as far as I'm concerned, well done. I don't know too much about specific UK weather, but here in the Netherlands after a high pressure area has been stationary, close by, for a few days, particularly in winter, there's a lot of haze developing below 1500". From the ground straight up, just bright blue skies. From the sky down, murky as hell. You can recognise these conditions by looking at the horizon from the ground: if there's a distinctly different color in the atmosphere about two fingers up from the horizon you've got to take care.
It's usually caused by an inversion layer trapping stuff below it. So it helps to pay attention to the temperature vs. altitude gradients in the weather charts. The metoffice forms 414/415 (or the UK equivalents) are good for this but you can also use sites like www.wetterzentrale.de/topkarten to look specifically for the temperature graphs from balloon ascents.
To make matters worse, in light wind conditions the preferential runway at Rotterdam is 24, which is exactly into the setting sun. Fortunately ATC recognises these conditions and turn the lights on early. So far I've managed but in conditions like this it would probably be safer to ask for 06 and accept a slight tailwind on landing.
