Robin eco flyer for training
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Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Derbyshire
Robin eco flyer for training
I was wondering if any flying schools or clubs had really looked at the Robin as a trainer particularly as it seems positively freugal as far as fuel burn is concerned? Would it be practical as a trainer for IFR with the appropriate avionics fitted? I am seriously contemplating acquiring one but would be interested in a club or school sharing it if anyone is interested.
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Amsterdam
My club has two Ecoflyers in a NVFR fit. They are the cheapest of the fleet (which otherwise consists of a DR400-120, DR400-160, R2160, C152s, C172s, Warriors, an Archer and a DA40-TDI) and are typically fully booked with PPL lessons.
Other than the one that ended up in a field (fortunately no casualties) due to the problem with the oil nozzles (SB has now been issued about this) I don't think we have any serious problems with them. We got them with leather interor and two Bose-Xs wired into the panel. That might on its own be the reason for their popularity.
Two disadvantages I see for our club use:
- Students never learn to lean, apply carb heat or do magneto checks. Plus, with a single fuel tank with an always-on electric pump the issue of fuel management is nonexistent. It also means that a lot of theoretical stuff you learn in the PPL course about engines, engine management, specific gravity of fuel etc. is completely irrelevant - or have the common PPL theory books already been updated for the growing popularity of diesel engines?
- Our field has self-service 100LL, but requires the bowser for Jet-A. If they're busy filling up the big guys we've got to wait. Sometimes as much as 30 minutes, which is a lot when you have two-hour lesson blocks. I think my club has now gotten into the habit of topping both of them off first thing in the morning (or last thing at night) by default: A full tank is good enough for a full day of lessons.
Do take a look at W&B though before you buy. Even if not full of fuel it really is a 2+2 (adults/children) aeroplane instead of a 4-seater. The IFR fit will only make it heavier.
Other than the one that ended up in a field (fortunately no casualties) due to the problem with the oil nozzles (SB has now been issued about this) I don't think we have any serious problems with them. We got them with leather interor and two Bose-Xs wired into the panel. That might on its own be the reason for their popularity.
Two disadvantages I see for our club use:
- Students never learn to lean, apply carb heat or do magneto checks. Plus, with a single fuel tank with an always-on electric pump the issue of fuel management is nonexistent. It also means that a lot of theoretical stuff you learn in the PPL course about engines, engine management, specific gravity of fuel etc. is completely irrelevant - or have the common PPL theory books already been updated for the growing popularity of diesel engines?
- Our field has self-service 100LL, but requires the bowser for Jet-A. If they're busy filling up the big guys we've got to wait. Sometimes as much as 30 minutes, which is a lot when you have two-hour lesson blocks. I think my club has now gotten into the habit of topping both of them off first thing in the morning (or last thing at night) by default: A full tank is good enough for a full day of lessons.
Do take a look at W&B though before you buy. Even if not full of fuel it really is a 2+2 (adults/children) aeroplane instead of a 4-seater. The IFR fit will only make it heavier.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 79
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From: UK
see this previous post
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=312432
I've taught 300 hrs on a DA40 TDi and 100 hrs on a 118hp DR400 and my gut feel is that the EcoFlyer would make a better training aircraft and ppl hire aircraft.
I'm going to prepare a detailed operational comparison and cost analysis between the two. If you are interested pm me.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=312432
I've taught 300 hrs on a DA40 TDi and 100 hrs on a 118hp DR400 and my gut feel is that the EcoFlyer would make a better training aircraft and ppl hire aircraft.
I'm going to prepare a detailed operational comparison and cost analysis between the two. If you are interested pm me.
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 359
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From: UK
My club, Sherwood Flying Club, were looking to get a new aircraft for a more fuel efficiency. We trialed a Robin but found it would not be best suited for a student plane as we felt it couldn't take the bashing and the banging that a student might give it. For private use, as long as you cared for it go for it, fantastic aircraft!
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,598
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From: Amsterdam
We trialed a Robin but found it would not be best suited for a student plane as we felt it couldn't take the bashing and the banging that a student might give it.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 79
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From: UK
Compared to a C152 then a DR400 could be perceived to be more delicate.
From actual PPL operations however, it is evident to me that they are very robust and as their handling is so good there is less likelihood of them being damaged in a bad landing.
In France they are as common in flying schools as C152/Warriors are here - so they can't be that flimsy!
From actual PPL operations however, it is evident to me that they are very robust and as their handling is so good there is less likelihood of them being damaged in a bad landing.
In France they are as common in flying schools as C152/Warriors are here - so they can't be that flimsy!
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,359
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From: Midlands
The DR400 is standard training equipment in most of Europe. I did some of my power conversion in a PA38 and some in a DR400. The DR was by far the better aircraft. You would have to be in ultra conservative mode to say it is not up to the job and stick with the PA38.
Rod1
Rod1
