Cirrus RG?
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In a way, all this proves there has not been any drastic innovation in this field since WW2.
Ian
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The figures for the SR20 sound really low. The one I flew (admittedly a little) was indicating 150 kts at 75%, but I'm not arguing your numbers, just surprised. I don't go by sales brochures, I make them for a living - I know they lie, just like I do... 
The Commander I used to fly would do 145 kts @ 6000 feet and 12 GPH which is higher than book fuel flow, and slightly less efficient than the TB as I'd expect.
I'm surprised the SR isn' better in fact. However, what you're saying is that speeds and fuel flow match but that's with gear down on the SR and reracted in the TB I presume. How does the TB perform with it's legs down? The Commander basically stops in its tracks when they're lowered!
The Commander I used to fly would do 145 kts @ 6000 feet and 12 GPH which is higher than book fuel flow, and slightly less efficient than the TB as I'd expect.
I'm surprised the SR isn' better in fact. However, what you're saying is that speeds and fuel flow match but that's with gear down on the SR and reracted in the TB I presume. How does the TB perform with it's legs down? The Commander basically stops in its tracks when they're lowered!
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I'm surprised the SR isn' better in fact. However, what you're saying is that speeds and fuel flow match but that's with gear down on the SR and reracted in the TB I presume. How does the TB perform with it's legs down? The Commander basically stops in its tracks when they're lowered!
The TB20 drops from 140 to about 125kt when the legs come down. That's a LOT of horsepower!
TBH if I didn't have the dangly legs I would like a speed brake. The legs come in very handy at times. The only problem is that while a speed brake can usually be activated anywhere below Vne, I have to be below 130kt to lower the gear. A landing gear that can be lowered at Vne would be a great advantage.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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What you need to do is look at comparative performance for all piston types.
The long-body Mooney wins hands down in terms of speed, fuel efficiency and range every time.
Having the gear hanging down significantly degrades performance at all speeds - period.
I love the feel of the acceleration I get when the Mooney gear tucks away into the wing - sweet!
Plus it is FIKI deiced and has the fully integrated G1000 (now with GFC 700 autopilot) as standard.
Problem is Mooney advertise only about 5% as much as Cirrus and their lean ad budget is matched by the limited column inches their aircraft receive in coverage.
If somebody farts at Cirrus it is headline news in Pilot/Flyer etc...
But if people want to fly the equivalent of a Ford Mondeo...
SB
The long-body Mooney wins hands down in terms of speed, fuel efficiency and range every time.
Having the gear hanging down significantly degrades performance at all speeds - period.
I love the feel of the acceleration I get when the Mooney gear tucks away into the wing - sweet!
Plus it is FIKI deiced and has the fully integrated G1000 (now with GFC 700 autopilot) as standard.
Problem is Mooney advertise only about 5% as much as Cirrus and their lean ad budget is matched by the limited column inches their aircraft receive in coverage.
If somebody farts at Cirrus it is headline news in Pilot/Flyer etc...
But if people want to fly the equivalent of a Ford Mondeo...
SB
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The one I flew (admittedly a little) was indicating 150 kts at 75%
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You're indicating 130 at 7000 and 4 degrees. What's that in TAS, 140? Is that at 75%? Not too shabby and far better than an Arrow, 177RG or 172RG I'd think. The Cirrus looks pretty efficient to me.
Join Date: Dec 2004
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I think the Mooneys are terrific except they require acrobatic maneuvers to enter, end exit - one thing I don't like about aircraft with just one small door. The 201 is my favorite as it provides unrivalled speed and economy, for an avgas burner, but again, who wants to fly in a tiny tube? Personally I look forward to the 170hp DA40, I'm pretty sure it'll be a blast.
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Fuel burn figures, airspeed figures, insurance costs, maintenance costs ... *yawn* 
Let's focus on what matters: Retractible is way cooler than fixed gear.
End of discussion.
Let's focus on what matters: Retractible is way cooler than fixed gear.
End of discussion.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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"Retractable is way cooler than fixed gear"
Absolutely Bjornhall, the birds dig RG, both feathered (who I have noticed never fly with their legs dangling down) and also it is rumoured the non-feathered variety.
Deice: I have no problem with the single door entry for the Mooney - it means fewer doors to open during flight and less to check before takeoff.
The large baggage door at the back of the cabin is easily big enough for an emergency exit and is openable from the inside. So if an unconscious Roseanne Barr is blocking your egress from the aircraft and you can't uncork her (even by throwing pies out onto the wing) you can find another way out and help pull her out.
Fewer breaches in the structure = better structural rigidity, ask and ferrari or porsche owner why the performance car purists usually drive hard tops and soft top versions are the territory of the poseur/hairdresser.
SB (Fully retractable fully enclosing gear with shiny doors and rumoured to be dug by at least 2 (non-feathered variety) chicks from Maders)
Absolutely Bjornhall, the birds dig RG, both feathered (who I have noticed never fly with their legs dangling down) and also it is rumoured the non-feathered variety.
Deice: I have no problem with the single door entry for the Mooney - it means fewer doors to open during flight and less to check before takeoff.
The large baggage door at the back of the cabin is easily big enough for an emergency exit and is openable from the inside. So if an unconscious Roseanne Barr is blocking your egress from the aircraft and you can't uncork her (even by throwing pies out onto the wing) you can find another way out and help pull her out.
Fewer breaches in the structure = better structural rigidity, ask and ferrari or porsche owner why the performance car purists usually drive hard tops and soft top versions are the territory of the poseur/hairdresser.
SB (Fully retractable fully enclosing gear with shiny doors and rumoured to be dug by at least 2 (non-feathered variety) chicks from Maders)
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There is no doubt that there would be a lot more birds hanging around the GA scene if there were a lot more flashy planes around. A TB20 (one in good nick) certainly draws the appropriate attention
I do think single door planes are a bit of an acquired taste though. After 6 years of the TB20, I would never go back to a single door design. 2 doors are so much nicer for me, the passengers, and general usability. As just a little example, much of the time it is windy and cold at the airport and I can get any passengers inside the plane where its' nice and warm while I do the preflight outside, and I can then get in without anybody having to get out.
Obviously the bigger hulls like the Meridian are easier but they have the large back door entry anyway, with steps.
I do think single door planes are a bit of an acquired taste though. After 6 years of the TB20, I would never go back to a single door design. 2 doors are so much nicer for me, the passengers, and general usability. As just a little example, much of the time it is windy and cold at the airport and I can get any passengers inside the plane where its' nice and warm while I do the preflight outside, and I can then get in without anybody having to get out.
Obviously the bigger hulls like the Meridian are easier but they have the large back door entry anyway, with steps.
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SB - Even a Ferrari has TWO doors and I haven't seen many ragtop aircraft lately, have you? Come on, you're calling the mail slot in the back a door!?
I don't often fly around with Roseanne but I'll let her know you suggested pies on the wing...
The TB may be an attractive bird for the likes of us - flying nerds - but I have yet to come across a "bird" that was excited by the looks of a particular aircraft. Most seem uninterested except about the flying itself. In terms of sex appeal I think modern composites are more likely to win points even among the blokes.
Had a trial lesson just yesterday, our shiny DA40D parked next to a geriatric PA28 with a flat tyre. It's just too easy to win them over, even with a "shiny" tin can right next to the DA, the difference is just too obvious, and I dare say it's in favor of the fast glass.
Ok, so a Mooney may look cool, and the TB20, but if we're talking "regular" tourers and trainers there's no contest.
I don't often fly around with Roseanne but I'll let her know you suggested pies on the wing...
The TB may be an attractive bird for the likes of us - flying nerds - but I have yet to come across a "bird" that was excited by the looks of a particular aircraft. Most seem uninterested except about the flying itself. In terms of sex appeal I think modern composites are more likely to win points even among the blokes.
Had a trial lesson just yesterday, our shiny DA40D parked next to a geriatric PA28 with a flat tyre. It's just too easy to win them over, even with a "shiny" tin can right next to the DA, the difference is just too obvious, and I dare say it's in favor of the fast glass.
Ok, so a Mooney may look cool, and the TB20, but if we're talking "regular" tourers and trainers there's no contest.
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Cirrus SR22 Aircraft
Hi all
I've been flying the Cirrus SR22 all over Europe for a small group of private non pilot owners, and wanted to know if there are other owners or pilot owners of SR22 who require a pilot or safety pilot.
I've been flying the Cirrus SR22 all over Europe for a small group of private non pilot owners, and wanted to know if there are other owners or pilot owners of SR22 who require a pilot or safety pilot.
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I've never understood this "can't be doing with one door to get in and out" argument.
It's a bit like saying that I fancy a sports car but won't have a Caterham as you have to take the wheel off to get in and then put harnesses on...
So what? It takes 3 - 5 mins and then you are wearing a pure performance thoroughbred. I can't understand why anyone would chose a flying machine based upon criteria about getting in and out of it on the ground. Seems such a minimal part of the whole flying and ownership experience.
But what do I know - I fly a Pitts...
It's a bit like saying that I fancy a sports car but won't have a Caterham as you have to take the wheel off to get in and then put harnesses on...
So what? It takes 3 - 5 mins and then you are wearing a pure performance thoroughbred. I can't understand why anyone would chose a flying machine based upon criteria about getting in and out of it on the ground. Seems such a minimal part of the whole flying and ownership experience.
But what do I know - I fly a Pitts...
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Dyn'Aero MCR01 VLA does 140+ knots at max. gross weight at 2000feet on 80 (yes eighty) HP and with fixed gear - course it's only got 2 small seats (and currently thanks to the PFA/LAA all UK examples have been grounded since Xmas). Roll on EASA.
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and currently thanks to the PFA/LAA all UK examples have been grounded since Xmas
Really, news to me, I have been flying for weeks. I take it you are one of the 7 poor soles who have a mk1 tail?
Rod1
Really, news to me, I have been flying for weeks. I take it you are one of the 7 poor soles who have a mk1 tail?
Rod1
