Readback - how many items?

[Foxy Loxy]

ATCOs, please bear in mind that if you're speaking to the pilot of a small helicopter, unless they're on the ground they probably can't write anything down!!!

Hehehehe, some of us already know that!

Foxy

[Whirlygig]

I know Foxy! And I'm sure you wouldn't do this but I've been given several bits of information, all involving numbers, whilst hovering at the hold in sight of the tower! At that point, I ain't changing a dial or a sub-scale for anyone! I'm sure that was just somebody's idea of a tease!

And no, by the time I've departed, I'll probably only remember one of those items!

Cheers

Whirls

[IO540]

And im sorry to say it, never more than 1 at a time to an American pilot

Not sure where this blind prejudice comes from. The majority of the world's aviation takes place in the USA and their safety record is as good as the best in gold plated Europe.

More than likely the American pilot cannot understand a "regional UK" accent - I find some accents impenetrable and that's before one gets to the dreadful language they call "English" spoken by many ATCOs in the more southern parts of Europe.

I've read some recommendation somewhere about limiting the # of items to 3 but don't recall whether this was CAA (UK airways ATC) procedures, or ICAO.

One needs to develop a shorthand for writing down stuff, and have a pencil handy before making a transmission.

[clicker]

Reading all this reminds me of a Spantax DC6 that used to run into Heathrow on a nightky basis. One night the pilot was shall we say not a good english speaker and his hearing was just as excellent. On his first call he got a 3 item instruction from approach but he kept screwing up the cleared level. Finally the controller came back with "descend flight level eight zero. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, zero, readback."

[Julian]

And im sorry to say it, never more than 1 at a time to an American pilot

I am not sure where this has come from either as from my experience of flying in the US they throw all the info at you at once at a rapid rate! I ALWAYS write everything down when being given clearances, etc due to this fact. Like EA I have developed a shorthand over the years and find it works very well.

I do feel sorry for the heli pilots amongst us, didnt realise that wasnt an option for them. Hope they have elephant memories instead

J.

[Whirlybird]

I do feel sorry for the heli pilots amongst us, didnt realise that wasnt an option for them. Hope they have elephant memories instead

Thank you. I'm glad someone appreciates our memory load.

But seriously, maybe I should explain further. In a helicopter, you have your right hand on the cyclic, and left hand on the collective. In small helicopters such as most PPLs fly, there's no trim on the cyclic when you're flying, and it's very sensitive, so you can't take your hand off it. You can use your left hand for short periods, but that gives you the option of either writing with your left hand, or swopping hands on the cyclic, both possible eventually, but difficult. And in the hover, you need complete control of the helicopter and daren't take your hand off ANY control...oh, how I hate being given detailed instructions requiring a long readback just as I'm approaching the aifield and coming to a hover!!!

However, larger helicopters do have trims, and the types used by the police, air ambulance etc often have SAS (stability augmentation systems) and even full autopilots, so readbacks aren't a problem at all. But your average PPL doesn't fly one of those.

What I do - and I tell my students to do the same - is repeat back what I can, and ask the ATCO to 'say again' everything else, even if I have to do that several times. But it helps if those on the other end of the radio realise the problem and give us info in smaller chunks, please!!!

[Penny Washers]

Penny Washers

Another point to remember is that I, along with many others, only fly for one or two hours a month. That means that I am never going to be comfortable with facts and figures on the radio due to lack of practice.
Compare that with controllers who are on the radio all day and every day, and you can see that allowances have to be made.

[niknak]

Keygrip: My illustration of what could, and did happen, occured on a busy day with lots of RT, the pilot read back his clearance verbatim but still made the error, perhaps you are more perfect than others or perhaps in reallity you don't get out and about enough in the aviation sense?

Whirly:

It's standard procedure at our place, and many others, for the ATCO to ensure that helicopter pilots acknowledge reciept of the current ATIS before start up is given and thereafter the squawk is given prior to taxy clearance. This hopefully leaves you with ample opportunity to do what you have to do.