Farm strips
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However, on a calm summer evening, it is great fun and is definitely the friendliest place I've ever visited, really exceptionally nice folks there.
http://www.spenceairfield.co.uk/
http://www.spenceairfield.co.uk/
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Location: Sth Bucks UK
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Thanks for all the contributions gents!
I think it's Clacton that do the farm strip courses isn't it?
Looks like I'll have to extend my choice of aircraft!
I think it's Clacton that do the farm strip courses isn't it?
Looks like I'll have to extend my choice of aircraft!
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Just to balance this a bit.
90% of my flying has been into grass strips / home strip. I remember vividly flying into Filton when doing an IMC course. I was completely blown away by trying to land on a runway almost as wide as I was used too in length! I can honestly say they were the worst landings I've ever done! ... Really embarrassing when you have an instructor sat beside you!
SS
90% of my flying has been into grass strips / home strip. I remember vividly flying into Filton when doing an IMC course. I was completely blown away by trying to land on a runway almost as wide as I was used too in length! I can honestly say they were the worst landings I've ever done! ... Really embarrassing when you have an instructor sat beside you!
SS
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I'd echo the earlier comment about not using an instructor, unless the instructor has experience of short fields - few modern ones have.
I'd also suggest you look up the LAA Coaching Scheme and look out for one in your area. They are well used to very short fields and non-radio situations. I've done a fair bit now and it is incredibly liberating - I have few worries about PFLs anymore and prefer strips to large airfields like Old Sarum, Denham or Compton Abbas
I'd also suggest you look up the LAA Coaching Scheme and look out for one in your area. They are well used to very short fields and non-radio situations. I've done a fair bit now and it is incredibly liberating - I have few worries about PFLs anymore and prefer strips to large airfields like Old Sarum, Denham or Compton Abbas
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Shortstripper,
You touched a nerve here. A lot of my landings on long tarmac strips are bloody awful in comparison to dirt/grass strips when using C150's and 172"s, unless I really concentrate.(we always have a fair bit of wind to contend with). Never a problem with something heavy like the 210. I have mentioned it to many other "bush pilots" over here and they all agree. I think it is the perspective we get of the field. Dirt/grass strips no worries at all.
I now dump the flaps on rounding out (electric flaps) which lengthens the roll a little but always gives me a smooth kiss on the mat.
You touched a nerve here. A lot of my landings on long tarmac strips are bloody awful in comparison to dirt/grass strips when using C150's and 172"s, unless I really concentrate.(we always have a fair bit of wind to contend with). Never a problem with something heavy like the 210. I have mentioned it to many other "bush pilots" over here and they all agree. I think it is the perspective we get of the field. Dirt/grass strips no worries at all.
I now dump the flaps on rounding out (electric flaps) which lengthens the roll a little but always gives me a smooth kiss on the mat.
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Following on from comments received on my post #14 above
'In the UK an instructor is not the appropriate person to teach farmstrip flying':
Discuss.
Safe (farmstrip) flying.
Cusco
'In the UK an instructor is not the appropriate person to teach farmstrip flying':
Discuss.
Safe (farmstrip) flying.
Cusco
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All I would say is that it depends on the instructor.
I would not use any of our club's instructors for teaching strip flying as the only fly off of large airfields and almost never off grass. I'd use the local LAA coaches who have a wealth of experience
I would not use any of our club's instructors for teaching strip flying as the only fly off of large airfields and almost never off grass. I'd use the local LAA coaches who have a wealth of experience
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'In the UK an instructor is not the appropriate person to teach farmstrip flying':
SS
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You seem to be suggesting there is some magical difference between landing on an area of grass and an area of tarmac.
I cannot see why someone who is accurate at a licensed airfield with tarmac runways cannot be accurate at a farm strip.
In my experience besides accuracy the big problem is no one seems to actual consider book performance only folk lore based on well " xyz got in" or "if the xyz aircraft can get in we must be able to". Best one was the guy who said in the bar" I only have to look at a field to tell whether I can get in or not," I cant tell you how pleasurable it was watching him hit the hedge a few months later
I cannot see why someone who is accurate at a licensed airfield with tarmac runways cannot be accurate at a farm strip.
In my experience besides accuracy the big problem is no one seems to actual consider book performance only folk lore based on well " xyz got in" or "if the xyz aircraft can get in we must be able to". Best one was the guy who said in the bar" I only have to look at a field to tell whether I can get in or not," I cant tell you how pleasurable it was watching him hit the hedge a few months later
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You seem to be suggesting there is some magical difference between landing on an area of grass and an area of tarmac.
Of course there can be, unless the runway has been bombed or otherwise damaged.
Off airport operations require a whole different set of decision making skills and is best acquired by experience in that type of flying.
It also helps to have experience in other off airport operations such as snow, ice, water, sand beaches, gravel eskers etc.
Of course there can be, unless the runway has been bombed or otherwise damaged.
Off airport operations require a whole different set of decision making skills and is best acquired by experience in that type of flying.
It also helps to have experience in other off airport operations such as snow, ice, water, sand beaches, gravel eskers etc.
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You seem to be suggesting there is some magical difference between landing on an area of grass and an area of tarmac.
I cannot see why someone who is accurate at a licensed airfield with tarmac runways cannot be accurate at a farm strip.
I cannot see why someone who is accurate at a licensed airfield with tarmac runways cannot be accurate at a farm strip.
S&RM
Clacton do indeed conduct farm strip courses on the Super Cub. I'm sure you will enjoy it if you go for it.
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'In the UK an instructor is not the appropriate person to teach farmstrip flying':
I cannot see why someone who is accurate at a licensed airfield with tarmac runways cannot be accurate at a farm strip
The problem is far too many cannot fly accurately whatever the runway surface or length. You would be amazed how many pilots are incapable of landing on a short grass runway. As I said in my earlier post, I initially take people to a licenced grass airfield and see what happens. I personally believe that the problem is that if the picture out of the window on approach is outside of your experience, you are likely to screw it up!
With strips the major difference is the nearness of objects - this is outside most non strip flyers experience and invariably has an adverse reaction on first exposure. At my strip there is a hedge down one side and it completely changes the whole landing perspective. During the approach and roundout you are aware of the hedge flashing by in your peripheral vision and this can upset many.............
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The biggest problem, as far as I can see, for pilots new to farm strips is an inability to control speed accurately on the approach and that stems from having been taught badly at airfields with large tarmac runways by instructors who are more frightened of a stall/spin on approach than a landing over-run. I think a lot of instructors probably are not competent to teach farm strips, where absolute accuracy can be critical.
Also, appraisal of the strip, wind, obstacles and surface is a different skill to that needed to land at a licenced airfield, even a grass one. You're better off learning that from someone with experience, even if they're not a CFI, than from someone with a piece of paper which may largely be irrelevant.
Also, appraisal of the strip, wind, obstacles and surface is a different skill to that needed to land at a licenced airfield, even a grass one. You're better off learning that from someone with experience, even if they're not a CFI, than from someone with a piece of paper which may largely be irrelevant.
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You seem to be suggesting there is some magical difference between landing on an area of grass and an area of tarmac.
I regularly watch student pilots under training landing at licensed airfields with long runways, and they always seem to aim at least a 1/3rd of the way in. You simply can't afford to do that at a 500mtr strip. You need to be shown how to "think outside the box" (I hate that term!) in order to deal with farm strip flying.
Most PFA/LAA flying is carried out from grass strips, and I agree that their coaches will be far better placed to impart this knowledge.
But don't be put off, properly carried out it can be a whole lot of fun!
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One factor may be that those who train to land at a long tarmac runway such as East Mids or Liverpool are encouraged to land well past the numbers and also vacate as quickly as possible.
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Just read some of the accident reports to see how many unfortunate pilots found they couldn't reach takeoff speed at all, or hauled the plane off with the stall warner blaring only to pancake into the next field.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/srg_gad_06webSSL12a.pdf
Only a fool would expect the same performance on wet grass as on dry grass.
What you are describing can be solved at the planning stage,not just on the strip. You cannot get performance out of an aircraft that the manufacturer didnt build into it.
